Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship. So glad you’re back and glad to have my guest back. Bryan Badzin is back in his own house in the podcasting studio to join us for another episode.

I’ve had several requests to do an episode about couple of friends and really there’s no better guest to invite to discuss that with me then the other half of my couplehood who joins me on our couples adventures when we go and spend time with friends.

I was curious, Bryan, when you envisioned your adult life, did you envision having lots of couple of friends?

Bryan: Absolutely. I don’t know that I completely could put my finger on it when we were dating and newly getting to know each other. I don’t know that I realized consciously how talented you were with friendship, but I think I did sense it because it was always important to me when I thought about being an adult. And I thought about the people that were older than me, that I really admired socially—they had lots of friends. They were going out, not in an insane amount because they had families, but I always thought that was  important. You know, male friends for, as a guy and obviously girls have girlfriends, but I also thought it was important to have a couple of friends. And I guess somehow I intuitively realized that you are a friendship guru.

Nina: I have to stop you there. Of course I would almost love to edit out the word talented, but I know from editing that it’s impossible sometimes to take out one word and have it make sense. So I’m not going to. But first of all, thank you for the compliment. I always think if someone says that, I imagine my real friends who are human beings and I’m a human being like, who? No. Like she doesn’t ever, you know, not text back. Actually, I don’t ever not text back. I’m a quick texter, but I have other faults.

What it is, is that I care about it. I care about my friendships. I always have, and I’ve written lots about friendship even before I had the advice column.

I had an essay in Moment Magazine. I think it was December, like a year or two ago, about the model that my mom gave me and—and my dad gave me too— for friendship. And that includes couple friends. They would go out really two nights a weekend with a couple of friends. They planned way in advance. They had tickets to shows or they had dinner reservations that they made weeks ahead.

And so when we got married, at first, I was young, you know, I was only 23. I was like barely out of college. And I think that, I just was like, okay, you have a book club, you have couple friends. I was just checking off the list. We barely knew anybody because we were new in Minneapolis. I mean, I was new and you had been gone about a decade. And so we were really starting from scratch. Right from the get go, like anyone we met, if they were dating someone, we would make it a priority to go out as a couple.

What do you think some of the benefits are? I have my own ideas, but I’m actually curious what you think the benefits are. Like, why not just, you know, you go out with your friends on a Saturday night and I go out with my friends? Because I want to reiterate, I don’t think there’s a right and wrong here.

I’m just explaining why we do what we do. I’ve talked to people before. What if you don’t like your significant others’ friends and really would rather just go out with your own friends?

Bryan: It’s interesting as you’re saying it, I’m thinking, okay, well, why is it. How do you put that into words something that you just intuitively know to be true. There’s something to having guys having guy friends and girls having girlfriends. Right there, that in and of itself has a value. There is something also incremental and complimentary. I know it’s different.

It’s like the old saying two plus two with couples is like six. There is something about having a woman’s advice in a way that is, I guess, appropriate and fits in with a married life. And there’s something that comes from those couples dinners that it’s just different than if I’m with my buddies or obviously you’re with your girlfriends that I know, at least for me, it adds a dimension to my life and I think it adds a dimension to our life when we’re out with couples that compliments the rest of our lives and the friendships and stuff. So I do think there’s something special about it. And it’s definitely enriching.

Nina: I didn’t really think of it in terms of advice you might get from my friends. And I love that actually because I think about even as parents and things you and I might disagree about sometimes. It’s actually helpful. It’s helpful to have my friends be like, no, Bryan, no, that’s too much.

Or yes, they do need to have social media at some point. I use the word need loosely. Bryan’s very slow to take on anything new and scary where I would maybe be quicker. So somewhere we meet in the middle and probably with the help of our friends.

Bryan: Yes. Yeah. And right. I don’t know about the word, but it’s not that it’s scary. I just do believe in, you know, slowing children’s development appropriately. But yes, there’s times when I’m maybe too slow on it and the friends do help.

Nina: I think how a married couple, when you spend time with another couple—you don’t have to be married per se. I mean, you could be in the dating phase. I think this actually works even more so, in the early dating phase. It’s like, you get to know your boyfriend, girlfriend, spouse, through the eyes of someone else. Not that you’re needing their opinion. Everyone kind of puts their best face forward. You’re listening a little extra. You’re leaning in a little more. Everybody’s got their best behavior going on. You’re almost all dating each other and it doesn’t matter if it’s the beginning of a relationship or later.

You and I have been married over 20 years. You’re still seeing these other sides. This is funny to say on a public podcast, but sometimes you’ll say something funny and I hear someone else laughing. I think. you know, he is funny.

Bryan: No, you’re right. That’s a good point.

Nina: And I’m like, oh, he is cute. I’d pick him again.

Bryan: Right. As you’re talking, I’m thinking, you dress up usually more to go out, you’re out at a place, you’re putting your best face on. And maybe that’s something, I guess, I never thought about until you said it, but it’s absolutely true and you’re right. It does refresh the marriage friendship relationship in a way that maybe nothing else exactly does.

Nina: Like maybe, and Bryan doesn’t have this, I will tell everybody that my husband has excellent, phone control, that he is not someone who’s attached to his phone. I’m much, much worse when you’re out with another couple.

Maybe you’re going to put your phone down a little more than you normally would. Maybe you’re going to be a little more aware of saying to the kids, okay we’re out. I’m sure you’ll be fine. If it’s an emergency call 911 or call us maybe in that order, but no, just call 911. We’re not going to answer for every tiny situation.

Can you see any argument for not pursuing a couple friends? I personally can’t, but are we missing something? Because I’m telling you, I got in a conversation with someone recently who is not a friend of ours, but it’s someone I know.

And she was like, you know, I don’t get a lot of chance to see my friends. She said, so my husband does not like my friends and I really don’t like his friends. And there’s one couple that they know. They kind of each like the other one. But that’s it. Is it worth pursuing, is it worth making a point of finding couples or just like leave well enough alone?

Bryan: And this is obviously my opinion, there’s lots of different ways to have a good marriage, or to hold onto a marriage regardless of whatever challenges. I would say that there is a value to couples friends. I do think we are fortunate that we have found, through hard work and a little bit of luck, people that are couples where we generally and genuinely each like each other. So I like all the girls, you like all the guys. And then I liked the guys and you liked the girls sort of separately and together.

And so many of our friends are also our couples friends, but not all. And I do know of people where what you described, I’ve heard of it. And I think a lot of times people just sort of—couples will say, well, we have many situations where all the girl friends and all the guy friends, like they don’t like each other back and forth.

and I think there’s an argument for, you know, a sort of a third way where you say, you know what, [00:10:00] maybe they have to work on. Couples friends sort of incrementally because of what you were saying or what we were discussing earlier. I don’t think it’s a bad idea. I think it’s a, I think it’s a good idea to find couples, friends.

And I think we haven’t had to struggle ourselves with is this type of situation. But I would say if a couple does, in my opinion, it is worth them pursuing. Couples friends together, independent of each one of their friends, if they just don’t like each other, because there is a, there is a value to that, uh, as we’ve discussed and probably we’ll discuss a little more independent of just who you already have as your own friends.

And I think it does take work and it’s probably tempting to say, well, I’ve got my friends, you got your friends, like whatever. We’ve got kids that we’re working, we’re busy. but there is a return to the investment, but it is an investment.

Nina: that’s fair. That’s a good answer. And I want to say that I actually didn’t think of this until you were talking that when I was in high school I really didn’t have [00:11:00] like almost any guy friends.

I’m just really a girl’s girl. I didn’t have none, but I was not drawn to having a bunch of guy, but. Not natural at that. And college, I had more, but in my adult life, I have way more guy friends through our, a couple of friends and I wouldn’t call them to like gab on the phone.

I just like, first of all, they would be like, so uninterested. Yep. And then I’m sure they’d hand the phone over to their wives immediately, but . . I’ve gotten to know them. We’ve grown together. Some of us, I mean, some of these people we’ve been friends with for 20 years and it’s like, we’ve become.

Parents at the, you know, around the same time and we’ve, we’ve really grown and mature together. And I , I have a true affection, like a friendship affection for these, , men that I, I like sort of surprises me just based on how I grew up. And one other piece I think is important is.

I think what the couple of friends thing can get difficult when friends get divorced. And so now, now you have a single friend, or you have a friend that is just been single, has remained single. I [00:12:00] don’t want to leave that out of the conversation and I can see how that would be a real challenge.

Let’s say it’s a super bowl party. You know, a bunch of people are invited. Like there’s no reason not to. Everybody including, but can you invite both people? I mean, that’s hard. I don’t have an answer. I just it’s, we don’t need to answer that. I just wanted to say and, and acknowledge that that is a piece of the puzzle that is very complicated.

And the longer, the older we get, like the more. Could it be something we have to deal with. Yeah.

Bryan: Right. Or as, you know, unfortunately, you know, as people die or whatever, like the same thing where you get one, you know, there’s one person you’re right.

I think that’s a take it’s own topic to figure. How do you navigate, what do you, what do you do under those

Nina: circumstances? The very person. Yeah. Modeled a couple of friendship for me and my parents. , and as you know, obviously, but I’m saying it to the listeners, my dad died in December and my mom’s couple of friends have been as lovely as, as I would expect.

I mean, they’ve been friends for decades and decades and decades, and they check on her and they take her out and,[00:13:00] as the single, as a single person, you know, what can you do to make sure that you’re still included and how as a couple do you make sure you’re still including your, your single friends?

And so I just wanted to add that. Yep. All right, Brian, anything. Final before our better friendship go the week.

Bryan: No, thanks for having me on again. Uh, you know, I know that we, we obviously spend a lot of time talking about friendship, independent of your, your podcast and, um, uh, couples, friends has been a big focus for us for many years.

I think that, uh, Point that we made in my mind is it’s important. It adds, I mean, who doesn’t want to have a happy life? And I think , couple friends add an element of happiness that maybe just your own friends don’t and whether it comes easy or it comes hard. I think it’s, it’s been a great, , part of our lives.

And certainly, , I hope that others can take some of this, , to heart and figure out a way to increase if they’re, if they’re feeling they’re lacking couples, friends, cause it’s, it’s worth it. And

Nina: that’s really the better friendship goal the week is just to assess your situation. [00:14:00] Are you in a couple?

And if you are, are you missing having other couples you’re hanging out with, for all the reasons, all the benefits we talked about, and if that’s the case, then it’s a lot of work and. Saying it’s easy, but I think it’s work that’s worth doing, like Brian said. So thank you, Brian. Thank you listeners for being here.

And come back in a couple of weeks when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around.