[00:00:00] Nina: Welcome to another episode of Dear Nina, Conversations about Friendship. I’m your host, Nina Baden. On each episode, I welcome a different guest to help me get into the nitty gritty of friendship. On today’s episode, I spoke to author Diana Beckler about a piece she wrote in her subst called How to Make Friends.

It was a very refreshing take on making friends. Trust me, you guys. I have read everything there is to read about making friends and I really found her piece different and enough so that I reached out to her and I said, Will you please be on my show? She wrote in there about making friends after moving to Dallas in her forties.

We also talked about, and she talked about in her piece, some of the friendship deal breakers she has noticed about herself over the years.

We each talked about our own deal breakers, which are really more about why two people might not click, or ultimately why they might have limitations to how close they can get or how long the friendship will last. I brought up in my Facebook group, during the group this idea of deal breakers and a lot of people had.

Different things that kind of tick them off when it comes to friendship. And it’s just another way of showing no way is right. It’s just about knowing yourself. somebody in the group actually urged me instead of deal breakers, to think of them more as limitations. And I really appreciated that word change, although I had already recorded my conversation with Diana, but just know that when Diana, I are talking about deal breakers, it’s sort of a harsh.

We don’t mean, there’s something wrong with the other person. There are things she talked about that I talked about that we do that would bother other people, and she and I have a lot of differences in how we approach friendship. So, there’s no right or wrong. especially the older we get, life is short and knowing yourself and your own, again, I’d say limitations that might make it hard.

Ultimately get very close or , have a very deep relationship with somebody. if you’re paying attention to patterns, maybe you’ve had, or patterns of friendships that haven’t worked out, you’ll know what I mean when, when we start talking and everybody comes at this differently. But I thought it was a great piece that Diana wrote, Refreshingly honest, and I loved our conversation.

Before we dive into that conversation, let me tell you a little bit more about Diana. Diana Beckler is the author of the Novels who by Fire and Skinny and of the New York Times Opinion series going Off. She is written for The Guardian, gq, Washington Post, Esquire, mc Sweeney’s Electric Literature, Harper’s Travel and Leisure, and many other publications.

She is. Eight time Moth story slam winner and has been featured on the Moth Radio Hour, the Moth podcast, and npr. She teaches writing and the MFA program at Cedar Crest College. And check out her newsletter, Dispatches from the Road on SubT about travel writing life. And it’s also where you’ll find her essay, How to Make Friends.

Hi Diana.

. Welcome.

[00:03:07] Diana: Hi, Nina. Thank you so much for having me. This is such a perfect opportunity because we have been sort of friend adjacent for so many years and never actually met. And so this is perfect.

[00:03:19] Nina: I love that expression friend adjacent, and I’m going to start using it immediately, cuz it really describes, like 80% of the people I know. we actually get a lot of opportunities in life from people who are friend adjacent there’s studies on that there’s research on that. Like your best friends don’t usually recommend you for a job or introduce you to people.

It’s usually the next tier or many tiers down. .

[00:03:42] Diana: And it’s actually one of the things that I love about, online life. , we know so many people. Which I think has pros and cons, , and I say no, , in quotes, we know so many people and I, I actually really enjoy having all those connections.

[00:03:56] Nina: . So let’s talk about your piece, how to make friends. I think that, , the listeners need a little context for it. You referred in the beginning of the piece to three years in a row where you found yourself without solid in person, people to do stuff with, and , why is that explain about your travel writing and all that?

[00:04:15] Diana: ,

I’m a travel writer. I’ve been doing travel writing since about 2015. . It gets really addictive as you can. So, the couple years leading up to the pandemic. And then the first year of COVID, , I was really adrift. at one point I wasn’t even living anywhere. , and I say adrift, but, but without the negative connotation, I mean, sometimes that was a really positive thing in my life.

And, , other times, you know, well, it has a dark side, but. I was living in Mexico. I was kind of moving around to different parts of Mexico. I was renting apartments that were already furnished. I never owned furniture. , I was just kind of drifting and going to assignments all over the world. And it was amazing, but you know, everything’s a trade off.

We make choices. And when you make choices, you’re choosing one thing and choosing not to have other things. one of the things I. Inadvertently chosen not to have was local community. So, I would sometimes really, really enjoy myself and feel really high on the travel. And other times just feel like utter despair and loneliness and , those were my years leading up to moving to Dallas where I live.

[00:05:28] Nina: And so what year did you move to Dallas?

[00:05:31] Diana: I just officially moved here last October. So I haven’t even been here a year.

[00:05:36] Nina: So during , that whole major year of lockdowns, which was really kind of more than a year, but you know, the intense year were you in Mexico?

[00:05:43] Diana: I was in Austin. I had, yeah, I had a COVID boyfriend which is

[00:05:49] Nina: Love it.

[00:05:49] Diana: Yeah. . So the first year of COVID, I was living in Austin where he lived and, was in a pod with him and his family. That was very lonely as well.

[00:06:01] Nina: Right. And at least at that time , we were all lonely, then you moved to Dallas and you’re like, okay. It’s like real life again. You. Maybe put down. I don’t even know if I wanna say roots, cuz that might be too deep of, of, you know, sounds more permanent, but at least community, I like how you use the word community.

Cuz sometimes that can be an interchangeable word with friendship. Like you don’t always need a best friend or a couple best friends. You just need a community of people to do things with. But before we even jump to the things you did to make new friends, cause I loved a lot of your examples. I actually wanna fast forward for a second to speak about, deal breakers, because I think these are things that are, it’s important for people to know about themselves before they try to make new friends.

there’s no right answer. It’s just what you like. It’s no different than in a romantic relationship. I don’t think people realize often the connection between those two things. So you tell me a couple of yours. I’ll tell you a couple of mine

[00:06:55] Diana: Yeah. one of them is that I fall out of touch a lot and I. People who don’t care. so that’s definitely one. , I mean, it’s a deal breaker only because if they don’t accept that about me, , we fall apart. And if they do accept that about me, we can be friends forever. I can’t change it about myself.

[00:07:19] Nina: , you’re sort of saying, listen, this may be a deal breaker for you, the other person, but this is how it is. And I think that’s good and honest.

[00:07:26] Diana: I talk to everybody in my head. So in my mind, I’m not really out of touch with people. Everybody’s always with me in my mind, . And so when I get back in touch, after a long stretch, I don’t wanna feel awkward about it.

I’m so excited that we’re actually having a conversation. So to be greeted with INESS or, you know, I realize the person’s angry with me. I mean I can process their anger with them, but I can’t really honestly apologize because I know I can’t change. I know I’m not going to change it. And so, yeah, I feel like the friendships that have dissolved in my life are often it’s often because of that.

I’m hesitant even to talk about it, Nina, because I think I always worry that people aren’t gonna like me when I say these things, but, it’s just who I.

[00:08:14] Nina: Listen, if you have friends in your life, and I know you do people like you but I have to remind myself all the time. Not everyone has to, like you.

[00:08:21] Diana: Yeah.

[00:08:22] Nina: and it’s hard. It’s like, that’s a lot of therapy right there. it’s so much easier said than done.

I am actually quite a pleaser and, this whole falling outta touch, That’s an interesting one. I’m pretty good at keeping in touch, but I really appreciate a couple of friends in my life who don’t live here, you know? So they’re long distance, quite frankly, even if they do live here, some, I do have some who do live here.

We just don’t see each other that much. And we don’t talk that often, and I still think we’re really friends. I really do. But if you’re greeted with bitterness, you didn’t use that word. That’s my word. I don’t wanna put a word in your mouth.

that kind of feeling of you, you use the example of someone being like, Hey stranger, that’s a subtle, not so subtle kind of bitterness. , if that bitterness is gonna stay, yeah. That’s not gonna work. Like is why on either side. That’s not fun for, for anybody. So let’s go to the next one.

[00:09:10] Diana: ,

Yeah. So another is the, walking on eggshells feeling. If I feel like I’m walking on eggshells, I don’t last long in a relationship. , , I think it’s probably common. , I wrote in the essay that I just want to be listened to and considered, and given the benefit of the doubt.

[00:09:26] Nina: , Oftentimes we assume people are upset at us or we’re upset at other people because of things we assume it’s all about assumptions. And if you just assume the. Oftentimes a lot of tension goes away. It just does.

[00:09:38] Diana: Absolutely. And I, I think that my favorite friendships are with people around whom I feel like I can say anything. And, Still know that even if I say something, they don’t like that’s okay. Because sometimes people say things you don’t like, and that’s not that big of a deal. which is how I feel about people.

I don’t judge people for every single thing that comes out of their mouths. I’m not going to agree with everything they say, I might, something might rub me the wrong way. That’s all right with me though. I can move on from it. And I would just. Others to give that courtesy to me as well.

[00:10:14] Nina: So I think we totally agree on the eggshells thing and probably most people do in, in theory, but some people just don’t realize that. They are creating an environment where somebody doesn’t feel like they can be open. And that’s what eggshells are, where your friend is very carefully treading.

Okay. Your next one, if you remember, was what.

[00:10:36] Diana: Clinginess I have a hard time with clinginess. I, I actually think all of my friendship deal breakers sort of fall under the umbrella of just let me be free. you know, because, I guess I like to sort of float around in, in my life and I just want to be allowed to do that. So clinginess is very hard for me.

[00:10:58] Nina: How would you describe. Clinginess like what would be some examples of that?

[00:11:02] Diana: I can give a specific example because it was from so long ago. I know this person isn’t going to hear

[00:11:09] Nina: We love specific examples here. It’s nice. Cuz it’s hard to always talk in generalities. Yeah, that’s great.

[00:11:15] Diana: I had a roommate many years ago, back in, in the days when we all had roommates is how long ago it was. we had one of those, uh, kind of explosive falling in love, friendships, you know, , we met and were instantly just obsessed with each other but then I started to make friends and she.

Would give me the silent treatment and I wouldn’t know why. And it would be because I was hanging out with other people. So that’s an extreme example, but in a way it was a formative example because, , then we were still roommates for an entire semester and it was such hell. It was like getting divorced and living in a room together.

well an acrimonious divorce at that. I think that might be what really scared me off from clingy friends, because it was traumatic, honestly.

[00:12:10] Nina: So that, that is clingy obviously.

, then you said something that really hit me. I think I needed to hear it. . You said you don’t need every friend to be someone you can lean on in hard times. I thought that was really profound and you might not realize how much. So, , a lot of times when I’m reacting to stuff, it’s cuz I’m, it’s not just about my own life.

I’m reacting to all the letters I receive. And I’ve been doing this for like seven, eight years, not the podcast, but the column. And so I’ve seen and heard a lot. People are very disappointed in their friends. I have been to sometimes not just in bad times, but in good times. So, I mean, I’m sure you’ve seen as a writer, not every friend shows up to buy your book.

Not every friend shows up to go to a reading or to post about it on social media. I find with my podcast and with the writing before that, there are people who ask me about it all the time. Even if they don’t listen, they’ll say, oh, how’s it going? And I have very close friends. I don’t know if they would know the title of my podcast. They know I have one vaguely, but they don’t really ask about it. I think that used to bother me more in the early writing days. I like this point, but not every friend is gonna be the one who’s good at that.

Both in the bad times or the good times. And as long as you have enough who do each one, they don’t all need to do everyth.

[00:13:23] Diana: Exactly. I think it’s really nice to have a variety of people in my life who serve different purposes at different times. But the other thing is, I don’t think I’m ever disappointed in a friend. what a. I am prone to is feeling suffocated, obviously in this conversation, I think that’s come out.

So I am prone to feeling suffocated and, will need to sometimes step back. But I, I don’t think I’ve ever been disappointed in a friend because I don’t, this is maybe gonna sound bad. I just don’t think I have a lot of expectations. I find that when I’m going through a hard time, for example, I think I could call almost anyone and say I’m having a hard time.

And I just think almost anyone who loves me will be more than happy to have a conversation with me, but I don’t then need the person to, for example, check in on me every day. It’s just, some people do need that. I don’t, I feel like if I need something, I’ll reach out. in fact, when I’m going through a hard.

I sort of don’t want to be checked in on, I, I would rather just ask for what I need when I need it.

[00:14:31] Nina: And I. That means is you are probably the kind of friend and it’s not a bad thing. You are probably giving the same that you are expecting, which is you’re not gonna be the person that checks on someone every day. I have a feeling. If someone said to you listen for the next week, it would be really helpful.

If you just checked in every day, you would do it. You would put it in your calendar and you would be like, okay, I’m gonna check on this friend, but it might not. Your first instinct and there’s nothing wrong with that, cuz you’re also not expecting that. So sometimes we mirror. I have this with teasing.

I am not a big teaser. Therefore, I really don’t like to be teased. I don’t feel like I have to take it. Does that make sense? Like, I don’t dish it out, so therefore I feel I do not have to take it. Whereas if somebody’s walking around like really always like kind of giving people crap, whatever, then you better be able to take it.

But if you are not requiring, if your expectations are extremely reasonable, then it would be nice. If people also had reasonable expectations of you. I think that is a rational way to approach friendship. It’s when it’s uneven that. People kind of freak out.

[00:15:38] Diana: I totally agree. I mean, I, it’s funny the teasing example, I, I find that. Because I love being made fun of, I feel to me that’s love . And so, especially when somebody can really make fun of me for something, you know, just because they know me so well. And I don’t know part of that is probably just my family’s like that.

And to me it just feels really intimate. it’s a reminder that we all really do need different things. I mean, I, I love that, but. Need to be in touch with people all the time. And I think you’re probably sort of the other way around.

[00:16:14] Nina: Yeah, that’s probably true. And I don’t mind a little teasing. What I can’t stand is , when it’s just constant and you’re like constantly on guard, I find it very unre relaxing. Sometimes I just wanna like relax into my chair and not always be like, oh, do I have something funny to say back?

it’s tiring, but. Yeah, I think that my family, we’re not teasers. And so my, you know, family of origin. So I think, yeah, when you’re used to it, it, it does feel like love, right. a lot of guys also relate that way. . And if you can’t keep up with that, or if you would be offended by it, I think it would be a lot harder, , to make friends, ,

okay. There was one more, a big one. This was my favorite one. I’m gonna quote you. I’m gonna tell you what you said for the final deal breaker. There’s probably other ones. I probably have other ones too. And deal breaker seems like such a strong expression. I think we just mean preference.

what, what our preferences are

[00:17:02] Diana: I really like that distinction. Yes. Preference is

perfect.

[00:17:06] Nina: You said you do not like loyalty tests and I could not agree more. I mean, I’ve written whole things. I’ve like written. Against the loyalty test in your exact words, I quoted it. I’m gonna maybe even make a little Instagram quote out of this.

We’ll see friendship should usher in the fun, the light, the beauty, nothing makes me happier than a room full of my friends, laughing together, eating food I made for them. I’m not interested in testing anybody or, and being tested. This goes back to this mirror thing I’m saying since you are not testing anybody, you expect to not be tested.

I feel the same way I do not test anyone. And I often will be. Go ahead and test me. I will probably fail.

[00:17:43] Diana: I’m curious Nina, , so I know you’ve been with your husband for many, many years. do you feel like you have similar requirements in that relationship to your friendship requirements?

[00:17:57] Nina: Oh, that’s such a good question. Yeah, I think so. we are both very good communicators When we were early, early dating, I mean, it might have been within the first month, he’s four years older. We met when I was a senior in college and he was in graduate school. So he was a quite a bit, I mean, I was young, I was 21 and he was 25 when we met and at now.

And I think of a 25 year old and we have cousins at age. I’m like, oh, they’re babies, you know? But at the time 25 seemed like a real man. and he’d had way more therapy than I’d had. He was much more like in touch with stuff. . We were disagreeing about something.

And . I wasn’t like a silent treatment kind of person, I was probably punishing in my own way. Right. Like I was not being, easy to talk to. I was probably giving like short answers, basically what my teens do. he said, you know, you just cut off the lines of the communication.

That’s not gonna work. It was like such a grown up thing to say. that really influenced me going forward with him and with friends to just not, I don’t, I don’t like that. I don’t do that anymore. I don’t do the punishing and , I really can’t tolerate the punishing and he would never do that.

If he was upset with me. He would just tell me there’s no, hinting around and huffing around and, slamming doors and crossing his arms. , he’ll just say, and he expects the same. And since then, since I was 21 years old. So I think that was, I never really thought about that till you asked that, but I think that’s kind of where the loyalty test.

It’s a little similar to that. That’s a little different than the silent treatment and the punishing. , I had a friend once who was very. Disappointed that I didn’t check in when she had a surgery, it was not a major, major surgery, but it was still surgery.

I was very honest with her and I said, listen, I’m not always greater remembering that stuff. I should have written it down. And then I remember, and she was like, I don’t want you to have to write it down. You should just remember. And I was kind of like, unfortunately, that’s.

How my brain works, but I wanna be here for you. But if I’m talking to you the day before your surgery and I haven’t brought it up, I would expect that you would say I’m kind of nervous for my surgery tomorrow. , don’t test me. That’s what a test is. Right. If you’re purposely not bringing up something you wanna talk about, cuz you’re hoping the other person’s gonna like do their job to do the thing you wanted them to do.

That’s so silly. . I have no tolerance for any of that. I just.

[00:20:04] Diana: I don’t know, maybe this would be asking too much of someone, but I think that conversation could have gone so well, had she said it differently, had she said I find that I’m angry with you for this, but it’s probably just that I’m nervous about my surgery and worried that I don’t have the support I need.

And it’s sort of taken some responsibility, , as opposed to putting all of her surgery, anxiety on you, one friend in her life. I think it could have been a more productive conversation that probably wouldn’t have made you feel as defensive if she had phrased it differently. But you know, It’s the muddying of human emotions. It’s always, it’s always tricky knowing how to communicate and, I don’t know, but it, but it’s too bad because it can really put a Nick in a relationship, I think, to accuse somebody of something, especially when they’re trying to be a good friend and really doing their best.

[00:21:00] Nina: Yeah. And I like to look at the totality of a friendship. I like to encourage people to look at the totality. So maybe. In this case, I’m, wasn’t the best at just remembering the exact date. but I’ve such a good friend in so many other ways. , and I tried to give that to the next person. So, and when you said that, that’s why that struck me too about, , not every friend needs to be the friend you can lean on in all times.

Like it’s, as long as you have somebody, as long as you have a couple people. And, and in this case of the surgery, . I was better about it in the future, since I knew it was important to her, . It taught me a lesson. That, okay, this is important to my friend. She knows that I don’t wanna be tested. Just say to me, , you know, here’s one of those times I want you to write it down, whatever, and I’ll, and I will, and then I will check it.

I’m not gonna stand on ceremony and be like, this isn’t something I need. So it isn’t something you should need. I appreciated that we were able to get there, but at first it was very jarring.

[00:21:51] Diana: it’s not just testing it’s accusation in that case, which is very hard to take when. You didn’t do anything intentionally. I mean, okay. So what you failed to do hurt her feelings and, and you can take some ownership of that, but it’s, I don’t know. It’s, it’s pretty hard to be accused of something when you’re not being given the benefit of the doubt goes back to the benefit of the doubt thing, I guess.

[00:22:19] Nina: Did something inspire you to say loyalty tests in, your subst piece? did you have something in mind? Maybe it’d be too hard to talk about,

[00:22:26] Diana: I’m not sure that I did. it’s just something that, you know, I, I guess these are just all things that have come up for me in various ways through the years, that I know I don’t do well with, they’re all like to me, a little control Pany things. And so I just know that I Don.

Handle them well in romantic relationships though, I’m different. I do want loyalty and I do want a little smothering and I do want reassurance.

,

[00:22:52] Nina: all of this, just to bring it all back together, we brought all these points up. You brought them up in your subst. you didn’t actually make the line this direct, but it was obvious to me as the reader that , now you’re in a different stage of life.

You’re. Drifting from one place in Mexico to the next. And I know you’re still traveling and writing, but, and you have a home base now in Dallas and it was time to expand your community. So you had people to do stuff with, so you had in town friends to hang out with knowing all these things about you, I think just makes that easier, but then you still have to go out and make friends.

So what were some of the things you did? We will lead up to the literary salon just to give a spoiler alert, but there were. Little steps you did. And then I really wanna hear about the literary salon.

[00:23:36] Diana: Yeah. So I think one thing I did that I think, is also my advice for your listeners is think about the kinds of people that you always click with. And for me, that’s writers because I’m a writer, we have something in common and it’s not just having the job in common or the, the vocation in common.

, I think what makes a writer. A particular worldview or just a unique worldview, I should say. So always, click with writers. , I meet them and it’s instant friendship. , I hear a lot about professional jealousy and jealousy among writers.

, I’m certainly not immune to that, but, I do think. That’s secondary because what I mean, I it’s, to me, the first layer is always positive. I’m always excited to meet and talk to writers. so I thought, all right, let me find the writers. I had been teaching for a while for, writing workshops, Dallas, which are these, it’s just these online writing classes for adults.

And through that, I knew a lot. People from Dallas. , no, I didn’t know them because I’d never actually met them, but they had been my students. And so I reached out to them. I reached out to writers who I knew only through their bylines. and so that was my first move. And not everybody was interested.

And that was fine. I mean, I don’t, I didn’t really mind. but most of them were. And so I have to say like, think about the kinds of people that you normally click with and just send an email. I know that people think that they’re gonna come off creepy, but it’s not creepy at all.

Actually. I mean, if, you know, if you say something creepy in the email, that’s creepy, but , as long as you’re just saying, like, Hey, I just moved to town. We have this thing in common. I would love to go have a drink. Most of the people I wrote to were like, yes, let’s go have a drink.

[00:25:28] Nina: I think you could do that even if you’re not new to town, that’s one distinction I like to try to make for people when they, it, sometimes it’s like you move somewhere new. Therefore you need new friends. Sometimes you’re just in a rut and you’re just like, you know, I have more room in my life for more connection or you’re feeling lonely for whatever reason.

, and like you said, , they’re not always interested. People don’t always have time. . It’s always worth a try. And I love that you wrote about that and that you’re suggesting it here, cuz not enough. People are willing to do that. It’s hard. Sometimes just have to do the hard thing, but once you’ve done it, it’s not so bad.

[00:26:00] Diana: I, I think it’s a really good point that you, you don’t have to be new. part of the reason I did it when I was new is I had all this kind of. New city energy. , I was so excited. Get in my own apartment, not feel adrift. You know, I, I took so much care decorating my apartment, which I’d also never done before.

And I just had all this energy and excitement. And so I think I was kind of cresting on that when I reached out to all these people, but it’s true that you can do it anytime. , and I actually, you know, when I, I lived in New York for a long time and.

To me. It was really easy to meet friends. There was like almost any time I went out. I made friends because first of all, I just found so many like-minded people, but New York is just extremely social. No one’s driving, everyone’s walking around or, you know, on the train, we’re all too close together. It’s just a very intimate social place.

And Dallas is. Less. So Dallas is spread out in a sense it’s like a collection of suburbs. everyone’s in their cars all the time. It’s different. So, , people were really excited that I reached out. I think a lot of people feel lonely here or don’t feel like they have. Enough going on socially.

so I would also say to your listeners, if you feel like you don’t have enough going on socially, chances are a lot of people are feeling like that, especially since COVID. So you’d be surprised how welcome it is. And, , I know for some people it’s scary to send that email for me. It wasn’t scary.

I’m an extrovert for one thing, but I think it’s scarier maybe to do it in person, sending an email that feels low risk to me.

[00:27:37] Nina: You’re also used to pitching editors all these years.

[00:27:40] Diana: And getting rejected and ignored. Yes, exactly.

[00:27:44] Nina: And then you just kind of go next, but you’re right. I think an email is definitely a lower barrier than in person. let’s talk about the literary salon. What exactly is that? What does that mean? I love the word. . I don’t even know exactly what it is like, how is that different than a book club or other speakers?

I’m just so curious. you and I were emailing a little bit about this episode and I love how you said it was like fantasy football for literary people. So let’s hear about.

[00:28:07] Diana: Yeah. Okay. I actually don’t know anything about fantasy football, so I cannot continue that analogy because I don’t know what to say,

[00:28:15] Nina: Diana, my son, I have an 18 year old son. He is in three different ones. My 10 year old son’s in a few. My husband actually does not do anything with that, which is kind of different, cuz everyone’s husbands that I know does, but it’s a whole thing and it does bring people together. So I do think it’s an apt metaphor.

A group of people doing something that they have a shared interest in and seem super excited about it.

[00:28:38] Diana: Yeah, for sure. , , a salon is, I guess, historically it’s a writer inviting other writers over and sort of lecturing on a topic. I wanted to do something like that. I’m not interested in book clubs. I’ve never, been interested in book clubs because. I don’t really like talking about a book with lots of people.

If I wanna talk about a book, I probably have a lot to say, so I’d rather just talk about it with one person and not have to wait my turn. but the literary salon, , I don’t think that we’re really doing it in accordance with. The historical context. What it’s turned out to be is just a bunch of writers or people who like to write.

They come over to my apartment. I do it once a month. I choose a theme and I tell them in advance and they can write something on the theme. And then we all read aloud and. Give each other encouragement. If somebody wants feedback, they can ask for that, but that’s not the default. And then we just sit around and drink wine and I put out food and we hang out and, it’s become this really precious monthly tradition.

[00:29:44] Nina: I’m totally fascinated. You’re always the host. So does anyone else ever offer? Would you even want anyone to.

[00:29:50] Diana: I would not want anyone else to host to me. It’s this is my thing. There is a literary community in Dallas, and I love going to literary events in Dallas, but this is my thing. And I’m just, I love it so much. So no, I wouldn’t want anyone else to host. I feel proprietary over.

[00:30:08] Nina: I get that. I would feel the same way. Okay, let’s go back to the food for a second.

So do you provide the food? I can look real detail oriented. You provide the food, all the.

[00:30:16] Diana: Yes.

[00:30:17] Nina: And people are not paying. They’re

[00:30:19] Diana: No, no, it’s just, I mean, they’re my friends. It’s, it’s not a class. When I lived in New York, I did run writing classes in my apartment that people paid for. This is not that, , this is just a gathering. I always provide the food. Sometimes people will show up with a bottle of wine and that’s cool, but I always get tons of wine in advance , it’s something that I like to give and be part of.

[00:30:43] Nina: . Would you cap the number of people do people bring friends, like friends of friends.

[00:30:48] Diana: it always has worked out cuz you know, I live in a studio. There’s not a ton of space. At one point I did buy a bunch of camping chairs because , I don’t, you know, I have such a small space that I, I’m not gonna buy all these. Chairs because I would just be tripping over them all the time. So I have camping chairs now that I keep in my closet and just pull out for this, or, you know, if I have a dinner party or something, which is another thing I love to do that I would highly recommend to your listeners.

, if you wanna get to know people better, I think like having a dinner par and I think anything in your home is better than being out where it’s loud and you feel it, , time crunch. So, , I guess, I don’t know how many people, maybe 10 people that I invite and sometimes people will say, someone will say, can I bring this person?

It always shakes out to the perfect number of people. I don’t know how that happens.

[00:31:39] Nina: So people became friends from it, right?

Like you introduced people to each other, just inadvertently by having them in the same space.

[00:31:46] Diana: Absolutely. And it’s interesting how people have formed their own friendships. For example, there are people in the salon who live closer to each other than they live to me. And they’re good friends now and . Yes. I mean, it’s, it’s amazing. We have this great group energy and then also a lot of different one-on-one friendships.

[00:32:07] Nina: You’ve really done a service. I, I think. A really huge thing that could help people make friends actually is to start something on their own. I’ve done a whole episode. I think with that title was like, start something. the other benefit of it is then you are helping other people make friends. It’s not just so much about like your own social needs.

And then it all probably evens out. There’s like some good karma to that. You’re helping others. People feel good about the friends they have due to you. I don’t know. I love it. I love this idea. I wanted to ask you a final question, then we’re gonna wrap it up. , what was the reaction like to your subst?

, did it get a lot more attention than some of your others? , or was it about the same as your other ones or were people more eager to talk about this one at all?

[00:32:47] Diana: , I do feel that it was one of the, posts that generated the most conversation because I, I think it really is. Fascinating to people. Friendship. , it’s complicated. I mean, they’re so, you know, people feel they don’t have enough friends or they are, , in conflict with their friends or they miss friends, they don’t have anymore, or whatever.

People have a lot of. I think sorrow around the idea of friendship, but there’s also so much light and love and joy that we never give up on it. We’re always hoping for more and deeper and better, and, so yeah, I, I think everybody has a lot to say about it.

[00:33:28] Nina: I loved , reading the comment. In, and I’m so glad you wrote about it, so I could reconnect with you. And I just have always enjoyed your writing. I’m really grateful for you to come on here and, and talk to us about it. I bet people are gonna hear this and start something. , it’s such a tangible thing.

It doesn’t have to be a literary thing. I mean, whatever you’re interested in. I mean, some people do like book clubs, but book clubs, a that’s not a new idea. This one feels like a lot more original and there’s other original ideas out there. Often, you just have to come up with them. And if you invite people to do stuff, they were so touched.

People are so touched to be invited to do anything. , there’s a lot of potential out there. So Diana, thank you. Thank you for being here.

[00:34:06] Diana: Thanks so much for having me, Nina. This was really fun.

[00:34:09] Nina: And. Thanks to all the listeners for being here.

Come back in a few weeks . As I often say, when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around. See you soon.