[00:00:00] Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship. I’m your host, Nina Badzin. If there’s one thing we need these days, it’s some joy and laughter, right? It’s dark times. And while today’s story of a heartbreak from a friendship breakup isn’t exactly what we think of as funny on its own, and it’s not funny, but I am thrilled to tell you that there is a fantastic comedian out there who has made humor and art out of a painful friendship breakup he had in college.

Gabe Mollica’s one man show is called “Solo: A Show About Friendship.” That’s the full name. How could I not feature it on Dear Nina?

If you’re a fan of This American Life, you might have already heard a bit of comedian Gabe Mollica’s friendship breakup story. We’re not going to repeat it all here. The less funny parts of it are featured on This American Life. Reporter Aviva DeKornfeld did a story called “Say It To My Face” about Gabe. I don’t want to give too much away from that episode, but for context, Aviva managed to interview not only Gabe, but also his former college best friend, Tim. The parts with Tim are sort of the fantasy anyone with a friendship breakup has ever had a chance to hear from the friend who got away.

I’m excited to introduce you listeners to Gabe. Welcome Gabe.

[00:01:25] Gabe: I’m really excited to be here, Nina. I’m always happy to talk about friendship. And my show, my two favorite things.

[00:01:30] Nina: . So your off-Broadway show is called Solo and it’s about friendship. All the headlines I’ve seen tend to say. New York City comedian Gabe Mollica realized he had no friends, so he wrote a show about it. I have to hear every single thing.

[00:01:43] Gabe: So, in my early 20s, I went through a pretty formative friendship breakup. I started comedy right after that. And so there’s always a part of me that as I was starting comedy being like, Oh, I have this kind of origin story. There’s something that kicked this all off that the reason I decided to spend eight hours a day in coffee shops writing is because I was sad.

I was in this love triangle and it didn’t work out and I didn’t feel taken care of. And I just started writing as a way to kind of cope. I knew as a standup, like, Oh, I have this. Classic kind of superhero or comedian origin story. And so in the back of my head, it was always like, Oh, I’d love to do a show about this story because it felt like a good story.

For years I had the story and I would do it on stage and it would be fine. And people would be interested in like, Oh, wow. Friendship breakup. Interesting. it wasn’t until I turned 30 and my mom got sick and she’s feeling she’s much better now. She’s back at work. She’s fine. But she got sick and I have all these bros in my life.

These dudes. There was a period for a little while where it felt like, Oh, I don’t know if they know what to say. And that period was very difficult. I kind of felt alone. and I didn’t know what to do one day I got up on stage and I was like, so this is a show about how I don’t have friends that immediately people started reacting to and people were like, well, what do you mean?

And they started diving in and the first time I ever said it, it got reviewed in a newspaper and the journalist was like, this is a show about a man with no friends. And so sometimes in this fun sort of artistic backwards way, the audience and the journalists tell you what the show’s about because I was just kind of experimenting and hearing someone else confirm like, Oh, I know that feeling was really rewarding.

Once I had the lens on the friendship breakup, like the 30 year old Gabe looking back on it. That’s when I knew I really had something.

[00:03:22] Nina: I absolutely get that. I have kind of a similar story, not with comedy, but I am a writer who has written about a ton of stuff. It’s not like friendship was my only beat. I’d written a couple things about friendship, mostly, inspired by my own friendship breakup as well. I actually wrote a novel, kind of based on it, at first that never saw the light of day.

I actually got close to getting an agent with it, then the agent liked one of the storylines better than, it was like three storylines. She liked one of them. She’s like, okay, well go write this one. So which I did. I spent a whole other year writing just around that storyline, which was one of the friendship breakups in there.

After all that she just really wasn’t feeling it and I was like so tired of these characters by then and this was a Ten years ago or more and I’m really not a fiction writer I’m much better with essays and nonfiction all of that was really inspired by one breakup something I really connected with in your breakup that was on this American life, There’s a moment in there where the producer or the writer reporter? I don’t know what you call it on that show has connected with your ex friend and he says something like, well, yeah, we weren’t as close or like something along those lines.

My ex friend had a very similar thing. I had written her this long letter while I was abroad kind of asking for an explanation and, apologizing for my part in it and all of it. And when I got back in touch with her in person, she was very much like, Oh that, I don’t know. I don’t remember why we like stopping friends.

And I’m like, I’ve been agonizing over this thing

[00:04:52] Gabe: without giving too much away about my show. We’ve started to incorporate some of the audio from this American life into my show. And so there’s a couple things that I hear now, seven nights a week. And sometimes it’s hard for me to listen to, because you know, I’m sure with your friend, former friend, you play that audio in your head over and over again of what that felt like when you found out that they maybe didn’t care about the relationship as much as we did, now I have to literally hear it every night. So sometimes that’s difficult. I’m not glad that happened to you, but I’m glad it’s relatable. I’m glad I’m not like totally alone that other people are like, oh yeah, I had that friend and like there was just that disconnect through the record.

Like my stance. Is kind of just like, I don’t believe him. he’s like, ah, we weren’t that close. I’m like, you know we were that close. and maybe that’s my naivete, or my stubbornness, I say this in the episode, but it felt like he was preserving himself. It’s like, if I really hurt Gabe, If we’re less of good friends, then that makes me feel better.

If we’re really close and I really hurt him, that makes me feel terrible. I’ve maintained, and maybe that’s true with your friend too, I don’t know, that it was easier for her to be like, oh, we weren’t that close, it doesn’t matter. As opposed to being like, take ownership over that.

[00:05:58] Nina: yes, I agree with that and with her, it wasn’t like her saying she wasn’t close, but it was more like she was saying. She doesn’t remember any of the whole period of their breakup It’s like embarrassing because you’re like wait, I thought about this I drafted this five page handwritten letter that took me she used to be in my dreams I would have like dreams about her and yeah, then you feel like it’s something wrong with me But I agree with you when you saying about the self preservation maybe on the other side I think chemistry is not imagined It maybe doesn’t have to be equal, but it had to have been good, and I feel that way with, my friend too. And when you have good chemistry like that, and then all of a sudden it’s gone, of course, you know, there’s like a mourning period.

[00:06:35] Gabe: Yeah, and mine was a mourning period that turned kind of into art, which I’m sure as you also know, as a, creative person and a writer and a podcaster. You know, I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently because every once in a while I will get the criticism and I’m not above criticism, but I will get the criticism like you’re still talking about this.

Like who cares? Like you’re 30. And I get that. That is valid. But I will also say that when Taylor Swift writes a song and It’s about a breakup from a few years ago. I think most people are like, Oh, she’s expressing a feeling or an emotion from back then she doesn’t feel the same rage now, but whatever she’s feeling back then.

And so as an artist, I’m like, this is just like a song, Of course I’m okay. Now I think you have to be to make art about the thing. I think the reason my show lacked goodness for a long time was one, there was the craft of becoming a comedian and an artist, but two, you kind of have to go through some therapy and you have to talk about your life a little bit so that you can move past it in a certain sense so that you can create something around it.

[00:07:31] Nina: That’s right. And the reason I kept my beat more towards friendship, let go of the novel, all that, written lots of stuff about lots of things, but eventually. A couple women who were starting a website wanted to do a friendship advice column and I had written some things about friendship that hired me to do it and I was like, but I’m not a therapist. I’m just like a regular person who’s oddly obsessed with this topic. And they were like, no, we’ll make that the point. We’ll make it that you are just a regular person. You’re not a therapist. I’m not going to like delve into, any kind of therapy speak. I don’t, I stay away from that completely.

I’m just a regular person. The podcast now is gone away from advice and more towards actual topics. But the writing was, advice, but I wouldn’t be able to do it if I hadn’t felt the pain of it myself. It’s not only about breakups, it’s about making friends and, and everything.

There’s probably a lot of similarities to Things you bring up in your show But people connect to the podcast and to the writing and to your show because we have felt those things. It would be Kind of empty without having

[00:08:26] Gabe: and, they talk about this a little bit in This American Life, and it’s a thing that I, I think I was so drawn to this story when it happened to me, creatively, which is there’s more of a script, for romantic relationships, , there’s a million songs, There’s cliches, there’s movies and friendship breakups there’s not a ton of movies about them.

There’s not a ton of books about them or podcasts about them, but they’re very common. in some ways they were more shocking, in my example, I had a friendship breakup and a literal breakup and the literal breakup, the romantic one, cause it was like a love triangle that kind of went awry. I got over her super quick. I’m sure she’s lovely. She participated in this American life. She was very kind to me. It was the male friendship that I was like, why is this still gnawing at me? It felt like no one knew what to say either.

Some people would be like, there’s just some things you don’t do. You don’t date your best friend’s ex. And I was like, that’s actually not my issue. My issue is not that that’s fine. They can date each other, whatever they fell in love. It’s of course, it’s like how you handle your former friend or how you handle your friend. And I think that distinction and that’s the thing that I got hung up on for years.

[00:09:27] Nina: A huge piece of your show I think people are reacting to, I have to guess, just because I know what my listener base is and I know the people that come to me that want to be guests, like, you know, people pitch me a lot, it is 99 percent female, for sure. I mean, I could say that without even looking at my Apple and Spotify stats.

My audience tends to be female. I’ve had some male guests, but not a ton. You are in a small club. And I wonder if that’s a huge piece of what people are reacting to. First in your real life, they were probably like, Wait, I don’t know what to say to this guy who’s really upset about a friendship.

Doesn’t mean other guys don’t feel this way, but maybe not as many guys feel like they can talk about it. But then for you to get on a stage and talk about it, I have to imagine they find it so refreshing to hear a man stand up there and say, I had a close friend and like my heart was broken.

[00:10:15] Gabe: Yeah, there’s something about the medium, I think, , the solo show, medium, that, how do I say this? There is a gendered nature to this. My show is largely attended by women. When there are men there, I’m like, nice, guys are here. I will also say this, one time,

this woman came to my show on a date, and she left the show, , my producer overheard her go, oh my god, that show was great, I love that. I want to meet that guy, let’s get a picture. And the guy was like, eh, I didn’t really like it.

We tell this story all the time as a team, the team who puts my show together, which is like, you don’t need everyone, right? If half the people love the show, that’s great. This run that we reopened, this woman came back with a female friend, and she was like, I saw your show on this terrible date, and it was awful, and he hated it, and he was really jealous that I got a picture with you, and he just like, didn’t like it at all, so I brought my female friend.

And , we got this picture, and it was so triumphant. And so I think there is something, about women that are more likely to talk about their friendships in this way. My goal is to be for everyone. you know, I’ve said things on stage that gay audience members have been like, Oh my god, yeah, I felt that way too.

Or transgender audience members have been like, Oh my god, I totally feel that way. Or non binary, or whomever. And that’s been really satisfying for me. , but I think you’re very right and it does not surprise me that more women want to talk about friendship, than men do. Even the producer on this American Life who did the show, Aviva, was a woman. my goal is, you know, I make jokes about Adam Sandler movies and Sondheim , and musicals and Settlers of Catan.

Like I really try to have a joke in the show for everyone. That’s one of my favorite things about it. And so I try to be for everyone. And if you can crack this on how I can get more male audience members that would really help me out.

[00:11:53] Nina: And it would help them, that’s my thing. It would help the male audience members to see you up there being vulnerable. I think a one man show is such a vulnerable thing. It’s just like you, I know you have a team, but it’s still you on the stage telling your story and making jokes, but also like being just honest about your life experience. I know there are guys out there who can relate. I will tell you, I have some guy listeners, you know, usually it’s people I know somehow, well, those are the ones who contact me at least. And they’ll tell me, you know, via text or email that they connected to something, but I don’t think they would ever share it on social media.

And yet it’s completely universal, doesn’t matter your background or your identity or anything, to feel a sense of grief when you are close with somebody and then you’re not. Doesn’t matter who you are. How could you not feel, there’s a hole there?

[00:12:43] Gabe: when I found out the news, I was in Scotland. I was alone for the next year and so I had a lot of time to just feel that hole and to just walk around the city and be lonely. Listen, I definitely talk about embarrassment a lot in my show and talk about loneliness or whatever, but I also feel like when there’s a bunch of jokes in there and I’m in control, like I’m the orchestra conductor, right?

So like we can touch on. The most embarrassing moment of my life or whatever it is, but I feel strength and I feel, in control and I feel mature as this orchestra conductors, right? So you get 80 minutes of me. I’m going to dance all over the stage and tell some stories and tell a lot of jokes. And there’s a couple of jokes that They’re like, Ooh, I didn’t expect Gabe to go that hard on whatever.

And I think those jokes are important too. Cause I’m like, no, no, no. I still have an edge to me. But the idea of being vulnerable, it’s not like. Pure vulnerability for 90 minutes. You know, it’s not like I’m sad. I’m lonely. Even the way the show is structured, the first like 25 minutes is mostly jokes. It’s setting up the story a little bit and then we get into the story mode. , I can feel the audience change. I can feel the audience start to lean in a little bit.

And sometimes the first half. Or the first 25 minutes, I’m like, Oh, they don’t love these jokes. Like what’s going on? They’re doing fine, but I wouldn’t say they’re like loving it. And then I start the story stuff and I can just feel the switch in the room. They’re like, Oh, this is why we came to see.

We can see jokes anywhere. But what we’re about to get the story stuff, this is unique. and then by the time we get to the emotional stuff of those story beats, that’s when I feel like I have control. And that’s what I really love.

[00:14:12] Nina: I’m curious about the logistics of the show and being on stage like that. You said seven

[00:14:17] Gabe: been running seven nights a week in this new run, and we’re announcing an extension, so we’re going to keep going well into November, which is very exciting. We did 48 performances off Broadway at the Soho Playhouse on Van Damme Street, which is a bigger theater, it’s actually a 170 seat theater.

It felt small, because it’s an old space, and now we’re in a 65 seat space, but we’re totally self producing it. , we rented it, we’re running the bar and the merch and all that stuff. So it’s a huge undertaking, we’re doing seven nights a week. When we extend, we’ll probably do like five or six nights a week or shows a week, rather, because sometimes we double up on weekends.

But yeah, it’s really exhausting

[00:14:51] Nina: I just want to say it’s so grueling. I honestly, you must be exhausted.

[00:14:56] Gabe: I don’t have any hobbies. this is like the only thing I’m focused on we’re really trying to just like get lucky we really still need a big celebrity endorsement or some crazy press coverage and like, listen, we’ve been in the New York Times a couple times, but we just never had that big article,

I’ve been on TV a couple times, but we haven’t had that big appearance. Even after this American life from like blowing this wide open that this becomes a huge hit and I can Really make it my living and so because that feels so close. I feel like well now is the time in my life I’m 31 to take a big risk.

And so we’re doing that and it’s scary there’s financial worries and there’s Just being tired all the time and trying to stay hydrated and all that stuff.

[00:15:33] Nina: it’s a physical performance. It has to be

[00:15:35] Gabe: Yes, and I’ve gotten a lot more physical because the space is smaller so you can feel people on top of you and there’s something when you can feel them on top of you that I start like dancing around a little bit more because I’m like, Oh, I don’t want to lose their attention where on the other space the lights were bright and I couldn’t really see past the third row and in some ways I was in my own little world up there. , I could only see two rows of you. But now I can see all 65 people. and I’m exploring the space a little bit more. I don’t use a mic. It’s so small. So it feels really, really intimate. And that’s been exhausting and really fun.

[00:16:06] Nina: So back to friendship in general, how has doing this show for so long now affected your

[00:16:12] Gabe: the bros, who I describe in the show as, loving people who don’t always know what to say, they come all the time. they’re great. They get it. I will say when I started and the press started to come out being like, this is a show about a man with no friends. A couple of them were like, wait, what?

What are you talking about? that’s insulting to us. And I was like, just see the show. or see this version of it because they’ve seen every version. And for a long time, I didn’t have the friendship label. And I was like, see this version. Trust me, I’ve been working really hard on this.

And when they saw it and they finally like got to the ending, they were like, Oh, okay. This is what you mean. This is how we circle back around and are involved in the narrative and are not kind of tossed aside. So Nick, who’s like the, uh, kind of the foil to Tim a little bit, Nick is like the ultimate bro.

he really does circle back around and gets his flowers too. And so he comes all the time and people want to talk to him afterwards. it’s been weirdly kind of rewarding to talk about these personal things. because those people are really in my life that I’m not making them up and they show up all the time.

So I’m very grateful for them.

[00:17:13] Nina: It is nice. They show up all the time I actually have one more follow up to that because this is something that I struggle with sometimes talking about friendship as much as I do, because I talk about friendship a lot, it seems to imply that I’m lacking in friends. I really not. , I’m older than you, much older than you.

I’m 46. I have four children, a husband, and I have a lot of friends, thank God. I’ve lived in Minneapolis for 23 years before that, I had my college friends, my high school friends. And so I have a very full life of in person friends and long distance friends. I am always open to new friendship, which not everybody is.

I am open to new friends. I’ve made new friends in the past couple of years, but I’m not actively needing or looking to add more. to my plate. I could barely see the friends I have. it’s almost like a function of just being someone who talks about it a lot. People don’t always get the full message and they think, Oh, poor Nina, she needs friends.

Your show is actually called solo. And like you said, it has this tagline of, , he has no friends, which is not the case. And you make that clear in the show, but are you getting people like sort of

[00:18:14] Gabe: so my friend Anthony DeVito, who’s a great comedian, was like, dude, like most guys do shows and then they get DMs from women who want to go on dates. You’re going to get DMs from guys who want to go to the Jets game. He said that very early on and he was right and I love those DMs. I’ve definitely like met a couple guys for coffee post show, just to talk about friendship or whatever.

the people I almost always relate to the most are the artists. So I’m like, Oh, if you’re a writer, it’s a lot easier for me or a comedian or a theater maker. It’s a lot easier for me to meet with you for an hour, and talk craft sometimes it’s hard for me. It’s like going on a, a date. It’s much more exhausting to just randomly meet somebody and like, let’s be friends like let’s hang out. That does get offered to me and I’m not against it. I’m not like, no, never talk to me. but it happens a lot more with colleagues, right?

With fellow artists. And that’s usually an easier way in for me. And at this point in my life, you know, I’m a comedian. I meet lots of people. And the ones that usually stick around usually have some sort of work context to them. , we can be creative together. Yeah.

[00:19:11] Nina: And you’re working every single day and you’re trying to grow this show. Are you going to bring it out of New York?

[00:19:16] Gabe: So we’re doing a week in Chicago right before Christmas. And we’re going to do a week in Boston in April. And we are working on bringing it to the Twin Cities sometime in the spring.

[00:19:27] Nina: obviously I’ll be there.

[00:19:28] Gabe: yes, you were very much invited. And we have on Gabe Mollica dot com, which is just like where all my links lead to, there’s an email list.

And if you sign up for that email list and you put in Minneapolis or whatever, you’ll get a nice email when we announced that, we got tons of Boston emails, so I’m very excited to. To send all those Boston people, but please, , Twin Cities people, we’d love to have you too.So just sign up there and you’ll get a little promo code. I hope

[00:19:49] Nina: Oh, fantastic. That’s a perfect place to end and everybody I’ll have in the show notes and online on, all my social media too. Links to Gabe’s show and Gabe’s everything. He’s really fun on Instagram and TikTok and everything. Gabe, thank you for being willing to come on my little show. I’m also self produced, so I get you

[00:20:07] Gabe: It’s really, really fun to be here your show is the right audience. This is the best.

[00:20:11] Nina: my listeners love friendship and I end every episode by saying, come back next week when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around and I know Gabe agrees with that.

You can find tickets for Gabe’s show at GabeMollica. com. As always, I haven’t said it in a while because. I just haven’t. Always helps when you review the show, give it only five stars.

I mentioned maybe a month ago that somebody gave me a really great review of all nice things to say, but only gave it three stars on Apple. And I was kind of like, what? Anyway, stuff like that does bring down the average, which is no fun. If you, Got something out of this episode or any other episode and you just want to throw some appreciation my way I’m so grateful Thank you for considering it. I hope you have a good week, a peaceful week, a week with some light in it.

See you next time.