[00:00:00] Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina, Conversations About Friendship. If you have been here before, and you’re enjoying the podcast, which I hope is the case if you’ve come back, I would love if you would share an episode with a friend. It is such a good way to get real conversations started between actual friends.

Maybe there’s some topic you’ve been wanting to broach, or maybe there’s something you want to share with your teen or you know a friend is dealing with. I really talk about adult friendships 90 percent of the time, but a lot of the topics apply to all people of all ages. Part of today’s episode definitely applies to teens too, towards the end.

It’s not the main topic, but we do delve into it. Let’s get right into today’s topic. I have two authors. They are co writers. They are very close friends. They are Facebook famous. If you are remotely spending time in any space on Facebook that has anything to do with friendship, you have encountered Amy Weatherly and Jess Johnson because they have this viral page called Sister, I am with you. They talk so directly and honestly about friendship. It’s really moving. I mean, their posts get an insane amount of views and comments. It truly resonates with people. That is not the only reason they’re on the show.

I’ve known about them for a long time because of that Facebook page, but also because they have a new book out called. Here for it. It actually has a much longer name, It is the how to guide for deepening your friendships and doing life together That’s sort of a subtitle. The title is here for it the good the bad and the queso. Amy and Jess are really fun. You’ll hear in the episode. We were laughing a lot. I wish we could hang out. They don’t even live in the same city, which you’ll hear about in our conversation. They are long distance friends. The way that they met, the way that they developed this business together of co writing books, they’ve written several books and just the way that they operate in their own towns with their own friends is inspiring. They have so many quotable words in their work, even just on this episode, a lot of times I start my episodes with a quote from the episode. I couldn’t even do that today because each of them said so many things. Little treasures, gems of words, I couldn’t pick out just two sentences. They are just delightful women. I hope that you enjoy our conversation because I had the best time talking to them. So here we go.

Hi Amy and Jess It is so nice to meet both of you.

[00:02:48] Jess: Thank you for having us.

[00:02:50] Nina: So since there are two of you, and I don’t want listeners to get, you know, confused about the voices. I’m going to have first Jess introduce herself, then Amy, and tell us where you live now. If you want to say where you grew up, I think that’s always interesting too. And just because I’m curious, how old are your kids and how many do you have? I think I have the same number as one of you, but we’ll see.

[00:03:08] Jess: Okay, hey, I’m Jess. I am currently living in Santa Barbara, California. It’s hard to say where I’m from. I moved a lot, but I grew up in very, very Northern California, like right on the Oregon border that people forget exists. They’re like, Oh, San Francisco. I’m like, no, there’s eight hours of driving past that. I lived in Montana for a long time also, and I have four kids. I have two boys, ages 16 and 14, and two girls, ages 12 and 10.

[00:03:37] Amy: My name is Amy. I am from Texas. I live in West Texas. I’ve lived in Houston and now I live here. three kids, 11, 10 and seven.

[00:03:46] Nina: And I have four kids 19, a 19 year old son. It’s funny. I don’t talk about my kids almost at all on the podcast, but it just felt topical here. You’ll see later. I’m going to bring something up later that we’re all going to be uncomfortable with, but we’re just going to do it. I have a 19 year old son, a 17 year old daughter, a 14 year old daughter, and a 12 year old son.

[00:04:05] Nina: Okay. So I want to get to our topic, but before we get to the actual topic, this is your second adult book. You have a huge online following, because the two of you have such a way of talking about friendship. I want my listeners to know how you got into this space and how you met and not the long, whole friendship history, but just like a little concept.

You know, you don’t live in the same place, which is interesting.

[00:04:27] Amy: Jess and I were both writers separately. I had my page, Jess had hers. Jess had been doing it a little bit longer, we wrote for the same page, and so we were in this writing group together. I liked Jess’s work. I like the way she wrote. I almost get embarrassed because we write very similar so I was like am I attracted to the way I write? But you know there’s a lot on the internet that’s fake, and I think I just knew Jess’s page from reading her page I was like okay this girl seems real I am just gonna be drawn to that every time.

I slid into her DMs on Instagram. I was like, hey girl, I like the way you write. Would you want to talk on the phone sometime? Nobody in my town does this, so I was really alone.

We kind of developed a friendship from there. We went from Instagram messages to phone calls. And one day I had this weird, wild idea, because we talked about friendship all the time. Just be like, hey Jess, do you want to start a page just about friendship? Call it Sister, I’m with you. I don’t think there’s anything like that.

Jess was like, yes, I mean, honestly, Sister, I’m With You, the page was born in 10 minutes, tops, and was just like, yeah, let’s just do this. Let’s try this, and we threw it out there, and, it did well.

[00:05:30] Jess: Kt was a common passion for us. We both just are very relational. neither of us have sisters. friendship was just a really big deal to us. So we’d spend hours just talking about friendship on the phone. And so it was a very natural transition.

[00:05:45] Nina: this story is the ultimate example of what we are really going to be talking about in this episode, which is, I think a lot of people have a goal of deepening their friendships. I really encourage people to not always have to start from scratch, that there are probably people in your orbit of some kind.

So you two are in a writing class together. You know, maybe there’s someone you already know. I’ve done plenty of episodes about making new friends, but this is like next level. We’re talking about, there are people in your life. You’re not completely alone. You’re like, you, you see people here and there.

It’s like, how do you go to the next level? Amy, you did the thing that all three of us would advise someone to do which is you have to do something. You can’t just do nothing.

[00:06:23] Jess: You have to step out.

[00:06:24] Amy: Every once in a while, I think there’s a friendship that just organically. Our kids are friends, so then we became friends like every once in a while that happens, but I would say for the most part. Every friendship starts with an act of bravery. Every friendship goes to the next level because of someone’s act of bravery. There is always the first coffee meetup. There’s always the first text, there’s the first, Hey, could I get your phone number? There’s the first, sliding into someone’s DMs. I don’t really recommend the way Jess and I wrote. And then I’m like, don’t do that. That’s internet weird stuff. You’re gonna find you a stalker. Always starts with an act of bravery.

[00:06:59] Nina: You had some examples in your book, Here For It. I would love to hear the Amber story also let’s choose between Jen and then does she go by Leah or Leia?

[00:07:10] Amy: all of those names are made up except for Amber. I told Jess, because I wrote stories out and then I was like, Jess changed the names. And just to reiterate, the stories are real.

[00:07:19] Nina: You anonymize

[00:07:20] Amy: Yeah, well, I wouldn’t have any friends in my town if they’re like, Amy’s gonna write about you and she’s gonna put your name out there. I’m not gonna do that.

[00:07:28] Amy: Amber’s story is one of my favorites. And she is just, I mean, gosh, we are so close, we didn’t start off close, and I love that, it was genuinely a friendship that was built little by little. Amber and I were acquaintances, at best. I did not have her phone number. We had been in this big group of girls that would sometimes go out together, that group sort of fell away years before.

But we knew each other. We were friends on Facebook. Her husband posted this story about he had just gotten home from rehab. He was an alcoholic. He had a gambling addiction. And he posts about it very vulnerably on his page. Amber shared it so I saw it. And there was just this little tug in my heart that was like, you should reach out to her.

And you know, it’s like the devil and the angel sitting on your shoulder. There’s the one that’s like, you should reach out. And then there’s the other one that’s like, no, you shouldn’t. That would be weird and intrusive and she will probably hate it. just kind of back and forth a couple hours of being like, I don’t know what to do.

You don’t even have her phone number but like I said, it starts with an act of bravery. I finally listened to the angel. I got Amber’s phone number. I just sent her a message and said, Hey, I saw Brantley’s post. One congratulations to him. I know that must have been a really hard thing I also know your entire life’s about to change your social circle. I just wanted you to know if y’all. Need friends who genuinely would love to just hang out with you. No drinking. That’s not even a question We don’t care about it.

We would just love to hang out with you It’s basically the text that I sent and it kind of built from there, but very slowly like okay. Well, let’s get together Well, let’s have coffee. Well, let’s include this person it was built like that and she always says and I think it’s the most beautiful thing because I’ve even asked her before I was like, Why did you decide to be friends with me?

And I love what she says. She says you walked in when everybody else was walking out.

[00:09:16] Nina: we got to break this apart for a second. There’s so many pieces of this story. The fact that you reached out in the first place. Sometimes when somebody puts something vulnerable out on Facebook, Instagram, whatever it is public, even if it’s on a private page, it’s not between two people.

And yet we do feel funny about responding, don’t we? Cause it’s almost like, were we supposed to read that? It’s like so personal yet it is out there. And I have to imagine that there’s some reaction that they’re looking for. And so you did a beautiful thing by affirming to her, Hey, yeah, I saw that.

I didn’t just let it slide by. I didn’t read it, take it in. And then she’ll go, Oh, it’s too bad. They’re going through this and then, yeah, she also had to not just say, thank you so much. That really means a lot, which is what she could have done. Most people

[00:09:58] Amy: exactly what I should have done.

[00:09:59] Nina: I mean, you guys know this, you can have so much nice writing back and forth, still something needs to happen.

[00:10:04] Amy: I was so grateful that it did. She brought along a friend that she’s known forever, again, someone I was acquaintances with at the time. And we all went and got Queso together. It was like really the first time we hung out.

[00:10:16] Jess: that’s such a good story. Love that story, still gets me I get teary Listening to it

[00:10:22] Nina: Jess, was there one you wanted to share?

[00:10:24] Jess: Yeah, I think that was honestly the biggest learning curve for me in friendship. That was monumental for me. My husband and I made a decision. We were super lonely. We had two little kids at home. We got married very young. I’d had these organic friendships in high school and after school. But all of a sudden I just looked up and I didn’t have any close friends anymore.

I was just so lonely. We had just listened to somebody talking about, sowing seeds in whatever area that you have lack. I’m like, well, I lack friendship. How can I sow seeds of friendship? And so we decided we were going to start inviting people over every Friday night, period. And we were like, nervous.

So we’re like, okay, we can’t back out. It’s like a big deal. We’re going to do it. we just, notice people in our life and I’d kind of check in like I was thinking about this couple. What do you think? He’d be like, yeah, let’s do it. And then we invite them to our house on Friday night, and we just jumped in. Was scary

But it was really good for us to have something consistent like that where we knew like, okay every Friday night this is what we’re doing and some of those friendships didn’t become anything at all but it was still really freeing to take the action. And we still found connection each and every time people came in our house.

Anyway, one of those couples is still our best friends to this day, and we’ve been friends now for, I think it’s been 12 years, they’re family to us. And that all started in that time when we said, Okay, we’re gonna make the jump, we’re gonna make the first move. So, honestly, that is the thing that changed my life.

[00:12:21] Nina: Yes, you took it upon yourself to say you’re always going to do the inviting. It is liberating to not wait. It’s like to completely as a blanket, say we are always going to be having people over and whether they have you back or not is kind of beside the point. Like some people probably did.

Some people probably didn’t. I also have, it’s funny, we probably do it for different reasons, but Friday night is, the Jewish Sabbath. I mean, I also have people over Friday night and that’s when we do the candles and challah. So when you said Friday night, um, I know you guys aren’t Jewish. And so I just thought you would like to know that little

connection.

[00:12:52] Amy: Yeah yeah love that

[00:12:53] Nina: so a great story. I’ve told it before it’s been a really long time though. One of my closest friends is somebody who did something brave She reached out to me because we kept running into each other we had a lot of friends in common in Minneapolis and we would see each other at kids birthday parties or things like other adult birthday parties. Wealways enjoyed talking to each other. , this could go on for 30 years in a town.

[00:13:15] Jess: Yeah, totally.

[00:13:17] Nina: Then there’s people you run into and you’re like, Oh my God, how you doing? And you run into them enough over the years, you actually start to know them and you Have a lot to talk about. She sent me an email basically said that. She was like hi We keep running into each other. We always enjoy speaking to each other. Do you think we could purposely see each other and if you’d rather not it’s fine I totally understand but if there is no reason to not get together on purpose, why don’t we stop getting together on accident something like that? I know it was it was bold. We got together for lunch. I mean this was probably 20 years ago. Our friendship has been very organic from there, meaning we didn’t all of a sudden have like a weekly coffee date. It just wasn’t as fast as that. It took a long time. We both kept having kids.

She has three. I have four. Time marched forward, and I just had a birthday lunch with her the other day. I was thinking, wow, she’s really one of my closest friends, but it didn’t happen immediately. It was slow. Those are very special, but it took that email, I think. But for her email, we would have been very nice acquaintances, nice ones.

Yes.

Yes.

[00:14:14] Amy: yeah, which is so easy to run in and, have the small talk and do the thing. And there are so many people that I enjoy and our lives just don’t naturally cross that unless you are unbelievably intentional, then, you know, it’s just, it’s always going to be that. And that’s okay.

We need those people too. With Amber with another one of my friends Callie who I didn’t mention in this book But I did mention her in the first book. What I would do is I had this tendency to sit around and wait and be like, well, if they wanted to, they would. If they wanted to text me, they would. If they wanted to include me, they would. If they wanted to invite me, they would. If they wanted to be my friend, they would be my friend. They would make the effort. And I kind of made this as I’m just sitting around waiting, and they have all the power. And it became in my head. They don’t like you. They don’t want you. You’re not good enough. finally, one day, One, what if those people are saying the same thing about me?

What if they’re saying, well, if Amy liked me, she’d text me. Because I wasn’t texting either. You know, and I think we always tend to do that. We make so many assumptions. oh, they have enough friends. Oh, they don’t like me. Oh, I don’t fit in with them. And, most of the time it’s just not true. These are just assumptions that we’ve built in our head that we’ve told ourselves enough that they become some kind of truth.

It was like a group I was trying to get in with and finally I stopped. And I was like, okay, Amy, who needs a friend? Is there someone that you’re sitting here waiting for a friend to come to you? What if that’s not how you do it? What if you have the power to go and be somebody’s friend?

What if you have the power to make these things happen? What if you could be the initiator? Who, needs a friend? I thought about Callie, who was brand new to town. She hadn’t lived here very long. I was like, you know what? She’s not being invited on these girls nights either. Instead of sitting around and waiting, my gosh, go be a friend to her.

And it was kind of the same thing with Amber. I knew it was like her social circle is about to change. We live in a small town. She’s about to get talked about a lot. and I want her to know that’s not gonna happen with me. You’re not gonna be pushed out here.

I’m not gonna pat you on the back and go and talk bad about you. It was one where I was like, I bet she could use a friend right now. And just building that brand new building.

[00:16:36] Nina: give this message over to my teens a lot, and I’m sure you guys do too. And I think they’re lucky to have these voices in their lives that say, there’s not a lot of pity parties happening here. Like if my kids have nothing to do, I did a whole episode called be your own cruise director. I’ll say to my kids, when’s the last time you invited anyone to anything?

[00:16:52] Jess: And that’s such a good lesson to learn young, because I was exactly like Amy. I don’t know what that is exactly, but I just assumed if people wanted me, they would invite me.

[00:17:02] Nina: I love when you said, Jess, it’s your turn. it’s a different way of saying something that I, you know, I’ve said a lot too, about you invite people. I like your way of saying it. It’s your turn. It’s always your turn. It’s always your turn. Can’t be waiting for everyone. It’s everyone’s turn. Like we can’t

[00:17:16] Amy: There are. And what’s the worst that happens? You know, you take a risk and you get rejected. Okay, you’ll live through that. You’re kind to someone and they don’t necessarily reciprocate it. Okay, you’ll live through that. You were kind. What is the worst thing that had happened if your friend had sent that email and you hadn’t responded? Nothing. It wouldn’t have been that bad, So I think, we build it up in our head like this rejection is gonna be terrible. No, we can survive it.

[00:17:39] Jess: I think too that those are still seeds we’re planting. So they might not grow something in that friendship, that might not come to anything, but we’re still sowing seeds and generosity into friendship, and I think that comes back around.

[00:17:53] Nina: And you just get better at it too if anything. Yeah, it’s like practice I was gonna ask and you almost already answered it, both of you. But what holds people back from doing that invitation? It is that fear of rejection I think or in being being

[00:18:05] Jess: it absolutely is, and I think it’s a fear. And I think sometimes we overthink that, and we’re like, Oh, it’s a sign. I shouldn’t do it. That sounds terrifying, or it’s making me nervous, You got to ignore that. You’ve got to press through the fear. Most people feel a little scared something brand new and making the first move. And the other thing is just the fear of it being awkward. We gotta get over that. We gotta get over the fear of it being awkward. It probably will be. Usually is. You have to get through the awkward in order to get comfortable. That’s just how it is.

[00:18:40] Amy: too. It was a game changer for me to change I remember one day was I was looking for someone to play pickleball with and I kept getting told no I think like two times in a row I got told no. And so I could feel myself being and shut down. Nobody wants to play with you shut up about pickleball Nobody wants to play with you. And so I started to shut down and then I stopped. And I said to myself, you know what actually we’re going to do? Let’s see how many times you can get told no today. Let’s see how many rejections you can get. Because if we’re all scared of rejection, right? Which most of us are. If I invite you to something that is in a way saying, Hey, you’re not going to be rejected with me. I like you. I want to hang out with you.

And so I stopped looking at it as rejection and a closed door. And, it’s me opening doors every time. Every time you initiate, every time you invite you’re opening the door. And so that’s really what I’ve gotten to be like, all right. I mean, how many doors are you going to open today? Because if you open twenty of them, there’s a really good chance that one or two of them are going to walk through that door.

[00:19:44] Nina: Did you find a game?

[00:19:47] Amy: I do have a little group that I play pickleball with and it’s funny. The more that I’ve put that out there, like, Hey, I love pickleball. Does anyone else want to learn I cannot believe how many people have reached out.

It was just because I put it out there

[00:20:18] Nina: I want us to just move a little bit to like the middle of this. So we’ve initiated, we’ve done the brave thing and then going from point A to point B, you’re really good acquaintances. You keep running into each other. You said yes to pickle ball. You’ve been playing pickle ball. Going from now we’re in the pickleball game. It’s a great example because it’s so popular to you’re invited to my 50th birthday party. I’m 47. So that’s more in my mind than for you guys, probably.

That’s its own other leap. It’s a leap from total acquaintances to we have a regular thing going on. And we actually talk before and after the game. And we actually have a lot to say. We even text, we even talk on the phone to I’m having six. Women over for dinner and you’re one of them. A lot has to happen

[00:20:58] Jess: I think intentionality, you have to carve time in your life for friendship and investing in the people that kind of stand out to you once you cross that initial barrier. And you’re like, yes, there feels like there’s something here. You have to carve out time to invest in that friendship, whether it’s a coffee occasionally, it’s taking time after pickleball to really get to know each other. And then I think you also have to cross that barrier into vulnerability and sharing a little more about who you are in a real and authentic way and what’s going on in your life. And just kind of feel it out if that’s a safe place.

[00:21:36] Nina: if you don’t do those things, You’re, could be better friends as in you’re seeing each other more regularly than before, but that deepening of the friendship some people might be looking for. It does take a little more,

[00:21:47] Jess: which sometimes that can probably be even scarier for some people if you’re not used to being vulnerable than even making that first contact, than even like initiating a pickleball game that might even be even scarier. But if you don’t, it can be a lot of hanging out and not getting close if you don’t let people in.

[00:22:06] Nina: a lot of hanging out and not getting close. I think that is what is happening when, people look up and go, gosh, I don’t feel like I have any close friends. You must hear that from people. I get that too. I get a lot of letters like that. , they use the word shallow, all my friendships are shallow. I’ll hear people say that.

[00:22:20] Jess: you can test that. You don’t have to give your whole heart to someone immediately. You see, is this person a safe place for my real? Amy did an amazing job with that with her friend Amber. She was just basically telling her I am a safe place right off the get go.

[00:22:35] Amy: I think asking good questions is another really good way, because you get to know a person that way. Get good at asking questions. Get good at finding out about them. And you don’t start with the big stuff. I remember, on a date with this guy in college, it was just horrible because he was basically like, let’s just dive right in and he was like, so tell me the deepest thing about you.

And I was like, oh, we’re ice skating here. So if you could not do that, that’d be cool. if you want to start with where did I grow up? But like deepest thing about me, what’s the most valuable lesson I’ve ever learned? I don’t really want to tell you, Christopher.

It was so weird and so forced so I think really find out a little bit about them ask a few questions. Let them feel safe and secure. You let them know about you a little at a time and it just from there It kind of naturally happens, it does take again just being really intentional.

[00:23:26] Nina: Something I want to end with which has nothing to do with this topic But it’s something you guys write about a lot on the Facebook page which is being left out. I sometimes, when I have other moms, I like to talk about this because something I know I struggle with is being someone who talks about friendship, writes about friendship.

I talk a lot about or with people who feel horrible having been left out. Of course, I’ve been there too. We’ve all been there. And then we have these teenagers they, of course, have been through that also, but they are also sometimes doing the leaving out. I find it very complicated because we’re out here talking about, helping other people who have been left out and yet I don’t think it’s healthy to tell our kids they always have to include everyone all the time like they do get to make decisions about who they want to be friends with I don’t know if you had any thoughts on that. It’s complicated.

[00:24:13] Jess: That’s another reason you can find yourself in a spot where you don’t have any deep friendships because you have so many people you’re investing in or so many people that are around all the time that it just kind of stays only so.

Deep and I want to teach my kids also how to be intentional I want them to be able to look in their friendships Just like I want to look at mine and be like who are the people that are really highlighted to me healthy friendships in my life that I want to make sure I make time for and I do think we really need to help our kids be resilient and to have self confidence Amy talks about this a lot, but just because somebody doesn’t invite you to something, doesn’t, have anything to do with your self worth.

They may just be maxed out, and that’s okay. So go find someone else to pursue that might also be on the outside of that circle. I think that’s really important because None of us are capable of having 20 best friends.

[00:25:10] Nina: Something I tell my kids sometimes and I say a lot on the show is if we ourselves enjoy having one on one time with people, sometimes you just want to have coffee with one friend. You have to allow your friends to also do that. You want to have coffee with one person, you have to be gracious and You run into your friends out having lunch, you smile, you wave, Hey guys, how are you?

Come say hi, and then just leave it, let it be, and let go because you wanted to have lunch with someone one time. Why can’t they?

[00:25:34] Jess: I actually have had that conversation with friends before when I could feel there was like this jealousy thing going on. I didn’t call them out on that, but I was like, I’m a quality time person, a quality conversation person. I can’t do everything in a group.

I have to feel close to my friends, I have to do one on one time, and I’m never trying to leave you out or anything. I’m just trying to connect in a smaller setting.

[00:25:57] Nina: That’s more positive, and it’s true.

[00:25:59] Amy: I think of how many times, cause I, it’s so important to me to include other people and to be an includer and to not leave people out. I think I live so much of my life feeling left out. And so I’m just really sensitive to never want to be that person. And I’m realizing now as I’ve gotten older, how many times I was so scared of hurting somebody’s feelings that I just took myself out of the game.

I was basically like, well, I’m not playing at all. I wouldn’t play in a girl’s night because I didn’t know who to invite. My 40th birthday just happened and my friends wanted to throw me something and I kept telling them, no, no, no.

And they’re like, why? We want to celebrate you, you’re 40. It’s a big deal. And my reason was, I was like, I have no idea who to invite. I don’t know how to cut off the list. I don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings. So I would rather just do nothing. And finally, I had a friend. She got me on the phone and she was like, we are throwing you a party. People’s feelings will be hurt. They will be fine.

We’re throwing you a party, Amy.

[00:26:54] Nina: That’s a good friend. I have a little stomach ache now in your place. I have felt that

[00:26:57] Amy: kills me. I was like, I almost didn’t have a birthday at the age of 40. I almost didn’t have a birthday party because I was so scared I was gonna hurt somebody’s feelings. it’s so hard because I like that about myself. I like that I’m sensitive to other people’s feelings. I like that I, think about them and I care.

But there has to come a point where you go, But I’ve also gotta live.

[00:27:18] Jess: And

[00:27:18] Amy: that I’m not, no, well, in half of the people, I was like, well, what if I don’t invite them, they get their feelings hurt. Finally, what she told me, she was like, Are they people who are inviting you to stuff? Because if they do get their feelings hurt, the truth is, when was the last time they invited you to something?

[00:27:32] Nina: that was a good friend

[00:27:34] Amy: I think it’s so, I have a, I mean, it’s not exactly the same. My seven year old though is the most social person I have ever met. I’m someone social and she wears me out. We will be leaving a play date. She’s like, who are we going to play with now? Can I invite this person? She loves everybody.

She wants to be friends with everybody and she wants to play with everyone. and so something I’m trying to sell in her that wasn’t instilled in me. And I think that’s such an important thing of being like, all right, where did my wounds come from and how can I stop passing them on? So mine was always more, Hey, if they didn’t invite you, they just probably don’t like you.

that’s why I’m so sensitive to and that’s why it hurts my feelings. And I don’t want my daughter to feel that at all. So even the other day, we were leaving school and she saw two of her little best friends going together. And she was like, oh, they’re having a play date.

And in my head I’m like, this is gonna be a moment, shape it right. And I go, oh. I know. And aren’t you so excited for them that they get to play together? You love having playdates with just one person. And she goes, I know I’m so excited for them. I hope they have fun. And then she went on about her business and invited a little neighborhood friend to come over.

And to me, that was such a special moment. Cause I was like, I hope you always remember that. And I hope you always feel that way. not getting jealous, , not getting defensive and not letting this be Something that taps on your insecurities. It’s not about you.

[00:28:55] Nina: Adults need to hear that.

[00:28:57] Jess: My friend said to me recently, her daughter and my daughter are best friends my daughter was having somebody over and I was giving her daughter a ride home from school. I’m like, is that going to make her sad to not be coming over, and my friend said, no, it’s really good for her to know that it’s okay to not be invited to every single thing. I think we should almost look for opportunities like that for our kids as teachable moments, because it’s such an important thing to learn all your life.

[00:29:26] Nina: I want you guys to write about this even more. I know you have, but this message needs to please do. This message needs to get out.

[00:29:33] Amy: Parents are so sensitive towards this because I can’t tell you how many times it’s been like, well my daughter’s getting left out on the playground, or my daughter’s getting left out of this, or my daughter’s getting left out. Listen, I’m not in that situation specifically, so I can’t say, I do know that nothing hurts me like when my child is hurting.

So I understand that, but I liken Parenthood to making pancakes. So, you know, when you make pancakes, if you overstir and you don’t leave any lumps, the pancakes don’t turn out right. You’ve got to leave some lumps. I mean, you can’t fix this for your kid. Let them be left out. This is a lifelong thing. I’ll you’re not gonna always be there to fix this for your kids. Let them have their feelings hurt.

Let them be left out in little ways. I’m not saying that there’s not a point where you intervene. There is. I think with parenthood, and I always have to remind myself, leave some lumps so that they figure these things out.

[00:30:24] Nina: I love that. you guys, we have to wrap it up because

[00:30:27] Amy: I know sorry. Good

[00:30:29] Jess: you.

[00:30:31] Nina: I encourage everyone to go out and grab here for it. Also Amy and Jess’s other books that you’ll see and when you google them, but actually won’t need to because I’ll have it all in the show notes. Will you tell them the name of the Facebook page because I think that also is something people will want to check out

[00:30:48] Jess: Yes, our page is called Sister, I Am With You, and it’s all about friendship. We’ve got an awesome community over there just talking about the nitty gritty, the real, the hard, the awkward things about friendship.

[00:31:00] Nina: a lot of you listeners if you gravitate towards topics of friendship, which you probably do if you listen to my podcast You have probably seen a lot of these posts. You just don’t even realize it because they get shared and shared and shared I mean a lot of them go viral. So I would be willing to bet if you go over there you’ll be like, oh, yeah, I know this page. It’s so nice finally meeting you two.

I love that we circle around the same topics and you just, you guys are both really people of abundance and it starts with how you met that you both were writing about similar things in a similar voice. And instead of seeing each other as competition, you actually created something huge together.

It’s, speaks a lot, not just your friendship, but to who each of you is as an individual. So I admire you both.

[00:31:38] Jess: Oh, thank you. thank you. you. too. Bye.

[00:31:41] Nina: Don’t you want to just hang out with those two? Maybe they’ll come to Minnesota one day and I can force them to hang out with me. If you’ve been here before, then you know what I’m going to say. And that is that I hope you have a great week or two weeks, depending when you come back and visit this podcast. We’re always talking about friendship. We’re always trying to make it easier and better. as I always say, when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around. Bye.