[00:00:00] Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina Conversations About Friendship and what is a very special crossover episode. I’ve never done anything like this. I’m so excited. It was my friend Rachel Levy Lesser’s idea She had me on her podcast with the intention of both of us putting it on our own feeds. She’s really the host, although I really did a lot of talking, so sorry Rachel. I hope you feel you got enough talking in, but I was the guest I guest, so that is kind of how it goes.

We talked about meet cutes. Do you know what a meet cute is? It’s like the thing that you see in movies, romantic comedy type movies where the couple meets in some sort of cute, unexpected way, perhaps. And we talked about it vis a vis friendship though, not a romance. We also talked about our shared love of blazers and leather jackets and any kind of jacket that you wear in a fashion way, not necessarily for warmth.

Rachel’s podcast, Life’s Accessories is always about a different accessory. I have been on it before. We talked about my tennis racket, which was a really fun episode, and she has been on my podcast twice.

Rachel and I have never met in person, but we talk quite a bit. We do a lot of voice memos. I believe she’s yet another online friend I’ve taught about the voice memo. I should be getting some sort of kickback for the voice memo. Money to be made there because if there is I’m definitely a voice memo influencer. We do talk a lot on the actual phone it is amazing how you can really connect deeply with somebody who you have never met in person.

That would have been hard to believe 20 years ago, but I’ve had it happen enough times now to know that it is for real. And Rachel is one of those people. If I ever get to Philadelphia or she ever gets to Minneapolis, I know we will be so excited to meet in person. I speak to her a lot. So here we are talking about jackets, meet cutes, friendship, and all kinds of other things too.

[00:02:02] Rachel: Hi, Nina, and welcome to Life’s Accessories.

[00:02:05] Nina: I’m so glad to be here.

[00:02:07] Rachel: I’m so happy to have you here. And now I am dying to know what accessory slash piece of clothing slash meaningful item do you want to talk about today?

[00:02:17] Nina: Today, I want to talk about blazers and jackets, not outdoor jackets, but blazers and leather jackets, the kind of leather jacket you would wear

[00:02:27] Rachel: I am intrigued. In addition to being an accessories and clothing person, I really am a jacket person. My mom was such a jacket person and coat person. She had a lot of coats. As I get older, I’m seeing myself more in jackets and blazers, and you are wearing a pair. fabulous white blazer today. So why did you pick the jacket and blazer per se? Is it a specific one you want to talk about?

[00:02:50] Nina: Not a specific one, but more a specific friendship that comes to mind. And since that is my topic on my podcast and in all my writing, if I’m gonna do an accessory, it’s going to have to be connected to friendship. One of my very best friends in the world, Taryn, she lives in Chicago.

I live in Minneapolis, but we grew up together and she’s been on my show several times. One of my earliest memories of her is Her always having a couple really special pieces, even when we were just in high school and there was a day when her mom came home from the city, it was like a big deal when you live in the suburbs to go to the city, Taryn and her mom both went to a hair person in the city.

[00:03:33] Rachel: My mom had a friend who got her hair done in the city and I was like, Oh my God

[00:03:36] Nina: I know, it’s a big deal. Now I’m not a hundred percent sure Taryn in high school was also going in the city, but definitely. I’m pretty sure her mom was, but for whatever reason, her mom was downtown.

[00:03:45] Rachel: We’re talking Chicago now.

Chicago, yes. Everyone has a different name for what they call their city.

[00:03:50] Nina: By the way, I think I’m calling it the city because I know you’re an East Coaster. I really think I would have said growing up downtown, Oh, is your mom downtown? We called the fun shopping area of Highland Park where I grew up Uptown and the city was downtown.

So her mom came home with three leather jackets. Not to keep, she could not keep all three

[00:04:13] Rachel: for

[00:04:13] Nina: her to consider. And this was going to be, we might’ve been juniors or seniors in high school. We weren’t in fifth grade or something.

[00:04:19] Rachel: So what year is this?

[00:04:20] Nina: This would be in, I wouldn’t guess, 1994.

[00:04:24] Rachel: Okay, this is a big deal to come home from the city with three leather jackets for a teenager.

[00:04:28] Nina: Three leather jackets. And her mom really taught her, and then Taryn’s been trying to teach me my entire adult life, because Taryn helps me get dressed. Taryn helped me pick out an outfit of mine I know you liked when Zippy Owens came to town. I was wearing a pink blazer, and we’ll get to that. Taryn was on the phone with me in an emergency get dressed situation.

But she through her mom, and then to me, learned that instead of having a bunch of stuff in your closet that’s not special, it is better to invest in a few or less things so that each one is special. I haven’t always been able to take that advice at all. I’m going to try. I really am committed to that because you walk into your closet and you’re like, I have nothing to wear, but you have a bunch of stuff.

It’s just nothing that you feel special about. the things I do tend to like the most are the jackets and maybe it comes back to Taryn’s leather jacket. I liked this idea that her mom was teaching her that it’s important to have a few special things. That special thing was a jacket really spoke to me also because I always feel really put together.

I’m a little bit more of a modest dresser for no reason other than, I don’t know, that’s just my style. I think it’s my mom’s style too. I’m not like in a lot of tank tops, but I just love a jacket because I feel like no matter what else is happening, if I’m having a bad hair day or however I’m feeling about my body that day with a jacket, you just feel, you just look good.

[00:05:45] Rachel: I am totally hearing you on all of this. I too strive to be a quality over quantity person. As Taryn was teaching you, but it’s hard because I like so many things. So I appreciate that. I know what you’re saying about a jacket. As I mentioned in the intro, when you were not on air, you are a friendship enthusiast.

You write a lot about friendship. You have a podcast called Dear Nina Conversations About Friendship. So I’m curious, obviously Taryn means a lot to you. She’s your lifelong best friend. Was there a little bit of envy with the mom who went to the city and brought home the jackets?

[00:06:20] Nina: I think so and my mom would say thank God my mom I know that you don’t have this opportunity with your mom and we’ve known each other now a couple years. my mom will be able to hear this and she will probably say but Nina you are so impossible to shop for because By being jealous.

I’m basically implying I’m not Jealous that she was able to have a jacket. I believe if I said mom, would you please pick out a few jackets? She probably would I probably wouldn’t like what she picked out. So as soon as I was able to drive She was done shopping with me because she found me to be quite impossible and she still thinks I’m impossible And I think I am difficult when it comes to clothes, but I never can decide what I like.

I have a hard time with that. I don’t think I have a lot of confidence in You Picking out clothes. The only clothing I really feel confident in is a leather jacket or a blazer of some kind. Yeah, I think there was like a little jealousy of, wow, that’s really cool to have a mom who went downtown and brings you this stuff.

It’s less about the ability to have it. Because by the way, that for sure couldn’t enter into friendships. Because we’re not really talking about an affording situation. I think she and I were in a similar situation there. Because that can be its own episode. I think it was more about the attentiveness.

And just knowing that your mom was able to pick out the thing you would like, but no shade to my mom because I do think I made it harder. My mom didn’t have a ton of shopping patience. She still doesn’t. She liked what she liked and she wasn’t going to spend the whole day on it.

[00:07:44] Rachel:  It’s interesting you’re saying this because I’ve recently been experiencing picking out one white graduation dress for my daughter’s high school graduation.

One of the greatest things in my life, I feel is having a daughter, not to replicate the relationship that I had with my mom, because they’re all different, but shopping with my daughter, Rebecca is more than just about shopping. It’s about getting that time back, which I know might sound crazy. So the other day I was.

never more proud of myself than when we were in a store and we were not finding the white dress, even though there were like 30 that looked exactly alike. I found this little white and pink seersucker dress for her to wear to graduation parties. She had no interest in it, but she put it on because I insisted and now she thinks it’s the greatest thing she’s ever had.

I feel so proud and it was a great moment, but I’m going to change things up a little bit. You brought up the as they relate to friendship because I’ve been thinking for a while now about the topic of friendships, of how I’ve met very close friends in my life. I think there’s something to the friendship meet cute.

A lot of movies and books have been made about the romantic meet cute. When Harry Met Sally is the perfect example. My husband and I did not have a meet cute. We met at a party at a bar, happens every day. But one of my closest friends, whose name is Kara, I met in college our freshman year. I think this is a meet cute and it has to do with the coat.

It made me think of it. We talked about your jacket, but we met on the porch of a sorority house while we were rushing different sororities. It was cold winter night. I had never laid eyes on this girl before, she had never laid eyes on me. And I stood out to her because I was wearing this very preppy brown duffel coat from Laura Ashley with the toggles on it that looks like it’s from the 1950s.

She was wearing a long green felt coat and she had long blonde curly hair, which I was jealous of her long blonde curly hair, and that’s how we stood out to each other.

[00:09:45] Nina: I know from your book that you had a Laura Ashley long moment in your life. So that makes sense that you, this is like a huge part of a friendship meet cute.

[00:09:55] Rachel: It was funny that we met each other while groups were mixing on the porch of the sorority that neither of us had any interest in and they probably didn’t have any interest in us. But we started talking and there was an immediate. connection. I stood out to her because of the preppy coat. She stood out to me because of the long curly hair.

I still love her long curly hair. When she blows it straight, I’m like, keep it curly because I have straight hair. But we were instantly attracted to each other. We had so much to talk about. As it turns out, we’re very close to our families. We had a lot of similarities in our families. She had a boyfriend at the time who became her husband, spoiler alert.

His best friend became my husband. Oh, wow. I owe a lot to Kara. I always say my children’s very existence is due to her. They should thank her every day. there’s a lot to our friendship over the years. She’s become more like family to me. we sometimes joke about the meet cute. she always says, thank God you were wearing that coat.

And I spotted you and I found you and you found me. So it’s just a reminder to be on the lookout for these moments. You never know who’s walking by you in any instance.

[00:10:57] Nina: It’s also a, a really beautiful example of not letting jealousy repel you, but instead attract you. And I think a lot of people miss potential friendships because they take that very feeling that maybe I had sometimes about Taryn or that even you had for a minute with Cara. You could feel envious towards this person and therefore stay away from them.

Because those aren’t good feelings. People usually don’t. Go towards bad feelings. Both of us but really especially you in this case because I was already friends with Taryn before the Shopping for the jackets came this was like you were meeting her fresh and you really could have been like not my kind of person She seems whatever fill in the blank. She made a thought about you. Oh, she’s so preppy or she whatever I know preppy means something different now

[00:11:38] Rachel: Preppy meant then you went to prep school, which literally I did. That’s what it came from. My style then was different from a lot of the girls. It was, talk about buttoned up, I wore turtlenecks, I wore sweaters.

Yeah, I probably was jealous of Cara’s style. She introduced me to some cool things. So, similar to what you were saying about Taryn, she’s also the person that advises me on a lot of clothes. And sometimes I advise her to, we can have that kind of friendship for sure, but it also goes so much deeper. I mentioned that we are very close to our family.

She has two wonderful sisters. One is a twin sister. One almost looks like a twin. And you know what? I’ve always been envious of that relationship she’s had with her sisters because it’s a beautiful thing. of course, it didn’t stop me from being friends with her. I love her sisters. she’s been there forever.

for me in ways that I never expected. And I know that I’ve been there for her as well. And sometimes we laugh about the superficial things like the curly hair versus the straight hair or the preppy look versus the not preppy look. And that’s what kind of makes it fun too.

[00:12:34] Nina: I just did an episode about different ways of conversations with friends and what my guest and I came to, and it really applies here, is that when you can have flexibility in your conversations with friends, it is really the most intimate.

So, You can talk about the deep things, but you can also talk about, what are you wearing to this event? you need to have the ability to be flexible with your closest friends, I think, and I think that makes for the most successful friendship. So a friendship where you can spend days sending links back and forth of like ideas for your daughter’s graduation dress, maybe like I could see, Taryn’s always sending me links and I love that.

We talked about Kara

[00:13:11] Rachel: actually sent me the links for Rebecca’s graduation dress. Oh, I just knew it

[00:13:15] Nina: without, Knowing it, of course, because I’m such a project for Taryn and I help her with other things. We each have strengths and we talk about the deepest things, too. There’s nothing I want to talk to her about, but then we can spend entire weeks deciding what I’m packing for a trip.

She’s always sending me links, which I love. She doesn’t send me things that is different from what I would wear. She will send me links that say, this is from a very famous fun influencer, but who’s always modestly dressed. You’ll love this camisole. You need this. This is what you should have been wearing under the pink blazer for the Zibby event.

I didn’t have something like that. So I just had to put on a t shirt pretty similar to what I’m wearing now. she be like, let’s get your wardrobe up to a point where we don’t have these emergencies. I don’t know how to exist without a clothing emergency, but she’s trying to solve the problem, which I appreciate.

[00:14:03] Rachel: Now that I know this about you, I’m going to step in a little bit there too, because I’m good like that too. Yeah.

[00:14:08] Nina: You always look great by the way. I noticed that in your pictures, you have the greatest style and obviously I know style is important to you.

[00:14:14] Rachel: We’re having a love fest. I recently listened to an episode of the Gretchen Rubin happiness podcast. Is it happier happiness?

[00:14:21] Nina: It’s happier. And I had Gretchen Rubin on my podcast. I was a huge moment last year, last summer.

[00:14:26] Rachel: Hi to Gretchen Rubin. I’ve met her at an in person event, actually at Zibby Owens apartment. I was not wearing a blazer, but I probably should have been. Gretchen on her podcast recently was

it’s talking to her sister, who she speaks to on the podcast, they were talking about having your own style and how that, in some ways, can make you happier. I know my style and I don’t veer off it that much. It’s a pretty eclectic style, but I know what it is and I go by it. And something could be in fashion, but it’s not my style.

Gretchen, interestingly enough, She does not wear blazers. She cannot wear them. They don’t look good on her. She said she looks like an insurance salesman in them. I’m going to need to see her in a blazer because I think blazers can all make us look good. If I could bring us back a little bit to the friendship meet cute.

I wanted to know if you have had any personal friendship meet cutes in your life or if you’ve heard about them from some of your fans or followers or friends.

[00:15:20] Nina: I have my own for sure. And I, hear about them, but in a different way, I don’t often hear success stories from people. And I really wish I would hear more and I should put a call out for that.

What I get are anonymous letters with problems, which I love because that’s what I do. It’s not that I don’t want those. And it’s usually the opposite of a successful meet cute. It is something more along the lines of I started taking a Yoga class. And I really thought I had great chemistry with this person, but it’s not going anywhere.

And I’ve made it obvious that I want to get together after for a smoothie, but they’re not picking up on it. It’s like the anti meet cute. It doesn’t quite work out. So the successful one’s going to have to come from my own life. There are many. I feel very lucky to say, but one that is really pertinent, I was just on the phone with her right before you, started this call with me is my friend, Julie Burton.

She owns ModernWell, which is where I lead writing groups with Julie. We are 10 years apart. So this is a two part friendship success, which is the meet cute, which I’m going to tell you in a moment, and the fact that we’re 10 years apart and we have so much in common and we have so much value in our friendship.

And I think our age difference is part of what’s special. about the friendship because we bring different perspectives to each other. But we were both writers. We are both writers. And that is how we met because we had a couple of friends in common. Julie’s youngest is the same age as my oldest. We each have four kids.

So whenever we can both show up at something, the fact that we run these writing groups together. I’m always like, we have eight kids between us. It’s like amazing that we do it. And her kids, she’s 10 years older. So her kids are quite a bit older now, but when we met, she had all the kids at home and mine were really little.

But the person who knew us both was somebody who was a mom of a friend of my oldest, again, similar age to Julie’s youngest. her name’s Lisa. And Lisa was like, how do you two not know each other? And I’ve done that a lot for people. Sometimes I just can’t believe people don’t know each other in town.

If they’re both in Minneapolis and they have all these things in common and they don’t know each other, I am uncomfortable. I have to introduce them. And I think Lisa felt that way. She was like, you’re both writers and you both have four kids. And we both were writing about parenting at the time. We had that topic and.

Common and we had a similar style. And so she just put us together and so we met for coffee It was quite formal. It wasn’t a meet cute in the way of like we bumped into each other Which is really how I met my husband, which was a much more classic. We were standing in line for an acapella concert in St.

Louis, but that’s much more of like a meet cute. But this one, we were set up. It was very successful. We just had great chemistry from the get go. But what had to happen next, different than when you’re in college and you met Kara, you’re living in a similar environment. It’s much easier to, be friends with people you have close proximity to.

Julie and I were both really in the trenches of parenting and trying to grow these writing careers. We had to make a point to spend time together. And that is the answer to the yoga person that couldn’t really make it work with the smoothies. You have to continue to make a point. And if you’re not going to get the chemistry feeling back from the other person, then you move on.

But it was clear that she and I both both were interested and I taught her how to use Twitter and that took a long time. We sat with my laptop open and I taught her how to use Twitter, which neither of us pay much attention to now. she taught me some stuff too. And maybe a year or two into being friends.

She had the idea to lead a writing group together, but we didn’t know if it would take off. We just put it on our little Facebook pages and we were like, we’re going to start a local writing group for whoever wants to come, but not for free. And we were doing it as a business venture. It filled up the people kept coming.

And so then we started a second day and we’re still doing it today. She has now opened up her own coworking space where we house the group. She does that on her own. She’s just in a different place in life. And I’m not an entrepreneur. We have a lot in common, but we also admire things about each other.

I’ve no desire to run a big business and she did. And she’s doing it, but isn’t

[00:19:05] Rachel: that what’s great about friendship? You have this chemistry, you have these things in common, these things that you love about each other. Okay. But yet you’re different and that’s okay. First of all, one thing about proximity that I have to shout out is everyone in college where I went to school lived in this one place called the quad.

I would say 90 percent of the freshmen. I lived in this dorm that was so far away. People thought it was at a different college. So proximity was an issue and it became a joke. And Karis, I love you. Cause I came over to this dorm and I’ve never even been there before. So we joke that we never would have met each other.

[00:19:37] Nina: It takes a special person. And I know you are one to be able to overcome that freshman year.

[00:19:43] Rachel: It’s a whole other story, but I made two really good friends in that dorm and it’s all good now. But I say that as a lesson to my kids, if they don’t get into whatever they want to be in, I say, look, I wasn’t in this.

There was a lot of things I didn’t get into. That’s the way that life goes. But speaking of college, I have another very close friend named Lauren who, uh, I actually first laid eyes on the summer before freshman year. We both went down to college for an event for kids of alumni and now everybody meets people before school.

But back then, nobody did. And we saw each other across the room. We were checking each other out because we liked each other’s look. And it turns out my dad remembered her mom from when they were in college, but nobody spoke to each other. We did not speak to each other the entire freshman year. We saw each other across campus all the time.

And I was like, Oh, there’s that girl. Finally, it was the end of sophomore year when we actually first started speaking. In fact, we took a history class together. And on the Friday morning class, when there was like 20 kids in the class and you met with the graduate student. Lauren would write down things that I said because she thought I had good points to make, and I would take note on what she was wearing because I thought she was a good dresser.

But we didn’t speak for almost two years, and now we’re excellent friends. So you never know about that. Some

[00:20:51] Nina: things are a slow simmer, and it really is true.

[00:20:54] Rachel: So I will just say all these sort of meet cutes, Kara, we joke about it now with the jackets, and we’re talking about jackets today, but Lauren, I use as an example in life, And for my kids too, I sometimes think about what if we never spoke to each other because we really didn’t talk to each other for almost two years, and then look what happened.

So I’m not advising everybody, and I’m curious to get your advice as a friendship advice giver and a friendship enthusiast, about when to make the first move and when it’s worth it to put yourself out there. Because I’m sure there’s a lot of people that see people across the proverbial rooms or hallways or outdoor spaces that never make the first move.

[00:21:32] Nina: This is so hard. It’s very hard to read cues. I’m realizing with all the letters I get that a lot of what people struggle with is reading cues. I’ve decided that there really is no good time or a good way. You just have to try. even though it’s awkward, cause I’ll get people who say it’s very hard for me, I’m very shy.

I honor that, but at the same time, You still have to push yourself. You don’t have to, I guess it’s not a have to, but if you want to meet new people, if your goal is to meet new people, you have to push yourself a little bit and that’s uncomfortable to say, because I think this day and age, we all just want everyone to honor their feelings and honor their limits and boundaries.

That is all true. I’m not saying you should do something that’s unsafe, of course. But being uncomfortable is not the same as being unsafe. And I think sometimes we get those confused. it may be uncomfortable to send the first text, may be uncomfortable to ask for a phone number. And those are not things you have to do if you’re not lonely, or if you’re not feeling like an interest in somebody.

But if you want to do those things and you’re going to have to push yourself. I would never wait for the other person to do it. I really am big on empowering yourself. If you want to meet people, then you have to make the effort. And if you want plans, then you have to make plans. Even though sometimes it stinks.

I always feel like you’re the one who has to put yourself out there. Other people might not need new friends. If you’re the one who’s in need, you have to be the one to do it. You can’t wait. So in terms of when is a good time or a good way, there’s not just one way. It depends where you are. And then you have to be able to read cues of interest without taking it too personally.

I think if you take things too personally, you’ll make yourself absolutely miserable and it will be impossible to keep doing it. I want to tell you really quickly about a letter I just answered on my substack from somebody who started a crochet class. She joined a crochet class and the person who was assigned to her to help her learn how to crochet was someone she liked. The letter writer really wanted it to be more than just crochet friends.

She wanted to see her outside of the class Got her number in order to ask some crochet questions, which was smart. I think that was a great move to make.

[00:23:37] Rachel: I feel like this is the Seinfeld episode.

[00:23:39] Nina: Like how specific?

[00:23:40] Rachel: Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:41] Nina: the letter writer has this number. Now that was smart to get the number and say, Oh, in case I have a couple of questions, maybe we can FaceTime.

I can show you what I’m working on at home. the person who was the crochet helper was clearly not that interested. She would answer very short text back. They did hang out one time with a third person from the class, but it wasn’t great. And most of the letter was the letter writer telling me. This person doesn’t seem that interested, and she was really put out about it.

my answer back was that the letter writer seemed to not even really want to be friends with this person. She basically said , she’s curt, she doesn’t always respond back, she never writes to me first. you actually want to be friends with this person, or you just want this person to like you?

Which, by the way, I totally get. I say that with no judgment. And the title of my piece was something along the lines of, Not Everyone’s Going to Like You. That was actually the point of that letter. letter to me was not, how do I make a new friend? I actually think this letter writer did do all the right things to make a new friend.

It just didn’t work out. It doesn’t mean she did the wrong things. It just means not everybody’s the right person.

[00:24:38] Rachel: I say I’m not for everyone.

[00:24:40] Nina: that’s another way of saying it.

[00:24:41] Rachel: Speaking of meeting new people. Obviously, you’re interested in friendship. Your friendships are important to you. I’m the same way.

Not that I’m on the lookout for new friends, because I’m really not. And by the way, my husband has limited me. He’s, we’re done. We’re 50, 51. Our kids are almost out of the house. What’s going on here? But I say to him, you’re never done. For example, my son started college a year and a half ago. My daughter’s about to start college.

I’m meeting their friends, parents. And I’m always open to an interesting person. My mom used to say I collected friends. I’m not going back to these meet cutes. You do have to have an open mind. to my husband, if you’re listening, we’re not done. He might be done.

[00:25:22] Nina: Rachel’s husband, Neil, who I’ve never met, but I, we refer to him.

I don’t think you can ever be done. You can do whatever you want. I’m not gonna tell your husband what to do. I think it’s a good attitude to not be done, to walk around the world with an attitude of being open and it doesn’t, mean it’s always going to happen. With your friend, Lauren, like it takes years, but you were open, you acted open, you didn’t stand in the corner on your phone with your arms crossed and act very closed off on your places.

It’s good to have the attitude that you just never know when you’re going to need someone new, people move, people get divorced, people pass away, life changes. And we’ve definitely seen that in the work I do, that people find themselves in positions where. They are lonely in times they did not expect to be.

And I’m not saying that wouldn’t be true had they made a new friend when they were 50. But I think if you just always have this attitude that is never too late to make new special connections, just a good way to go through life.

[00:26:16] Rachel: I think the pandemic is an example of that. This, there were stories of people connecting with friends they hadn’t spoke to in 20 or 30 years on zoom.

And it was like, no time had gone by. And then there were people in town that you didn’t end up seeing because you were staying home and you didn’t miss them. Yeah. it’s interesting to see how life unfolds and how that affects your friendship. And you mentioned standing in the corner with your phone.

I worry about that for our kids. I feel like they don’t know how to make friends. For example, in college, the way we did, you had to be in the hallway. You had to walk around campus, go to the dining hall. You couldn’t sit in your room with your phone or your iPad. That’s a whole other podcast, but our kids need to learn how to put themselves out there in a way that we had to learn by necessity.

[00:26:58] Nina: That’s so tricky. I spend a lot of time in my brain and nostalgia of trying to remember what it was like. It’s almost hard to remember But I do have this memory of the white erase board on the door being the most important communication tool. And maybe you were gonna meet somebody in the library to study, but you had to go do something else and you would put on your door Something like sorry had to retake a test or something and that was like the only way

[00:27:23] Rachel: that was like the snap map the dry erase board

[00:27:26] Nina: That’s right.

[00:27:26] Rachel: And then there is this whole other world that we’re in where you can become friends with people online, Getting to know somebody through their writing online, through podcasting, I think it’s called parasocial friendships, which can be a real thing. So bringing it back to that and to the jacket, I did recently.

Completely fangirl over the pictures and the videos of you interviewing Zibby Owens, another podcaster and writer and reader and supporter of all things bookish, when she came to the writing space Modern Well, which is that the space that Julie went on to start? You mentioned that she was a bit of an entrepreneur.

[00:28:10] Nina: Yeah, she started it. Isn’t it gorgeous in the pictures? It’s just such a great space.

[00:28:14] Rachel: Okay, so you teach writing classes at Modern Well and Julie started it.

[00:28:17] Nina: Exactly.

[00:28:18] Rachel: you were interviewing Zibby Owens about her new novel which came out this year called Blank. of course I was interested in this because I love Zibby and I love you and I was excited to see the pictures.

I was bummed that I couldn’t be there in person, but such is life. the first thing I noticed was how awesome you looked in your blazer.

[00:28:37] Nina: I got so many compliments on that blazer. It makes me want to wear it every day and I’ve had it for years. And to Taryn’s point, to bring it full circle on a friend giving you good advice. She is trying constantly to be like, that’s what you need is pieces that you feel great in.

And I’ve had that pink blazer for years. I remember taking Mother’s Day pictures in it with my kids, maybe three years ago. And I love those pictures too. I love pink. I love a coat. That’s her thing. Your whole closet should be like that. Only things, it wasn’t expensive at all. It’s not a special brand.

It’s not, it’s just that I like the way it fits. I like the length of it. I like the color of it. That’s her point. Your whole closet should just be like that. Only things that you feel great in. And I’m like, oh, that’s goals. Goals from Taryn.

[00:29:18] Rachel: That is a major challenge, but I think if we could all do that, how great would we feel, right?

[00:29:24] Nina: Yeah. Cause I didn’t find anything new for that event. I snuck up on me like all of a sudden I was like, Oh my gosh, this is the week Zippy’s coming. it just started to get springy here in Minneapolis, but it was still chilly. And I called her in a tizzy, I’m like, can I wear white jeans? Cause the, I didn’t know what else to wear.

We decided I could, and it looked great with the pink blazer.

[00:29:42] Rachel: And you probably felt really good about yourself and I’m sure you did an excellent job interviewing her as I heard you did. Yeah. I think putting on the right accessory, blazer, jacket, what have you, there’s more to it than you think.

[00:29:55] Nina: You’ve got to feel good on the inside and the outside and it goes together.

[00:29:58] Rachel: For sure. As I mentioned before, you are the host of the podcast, Dear Nina Conversations About Friendship, which I’m a huge fan of. Are there topics you would like to explore more on the podcast that perhaps you’re thinking about?

Because people ask me, How can you talk about accessories every week? And you know what? You can. And I bet you could talk about friendship every week. So what are some topics that you’d like to explore more?

[00:30:22] Nina: You wouldn’t believe that there are still topics I could explore, just like you’re saying. I’ve been writing about friendship since 2014.

So I do repeat some topics. Like there’s overlap, but not, Ever in the exact same way. So one of my most popular episodes was one with my very own college, best friend, Rebecca Kotok, and we talked about very blatantly how we stopped being friends for two years after college and then became close again.

And I think that is something that I would not mind exploring with other people. So not my own story. If there were two people out there who broke up and reconciled, even though that is in a way, the same topic, but. No two pair break up and reconcile the same way. And the reason I say the reconcile, I think that piece is important.

Because I don’t really think I want to have two people on who aren’t friends anymore, nor do I imagine that would ever happen.

[00:31:15] Rachel: You’re not running. What was that talk show where they had people throwing chairs at each other? Jerry Springer. People have not spoken in 20 years, but we’re bringing them back together.

That’s so interesting. And bringing it back to the meet cute romantic versus friendship. There are, I am sure so many more friendship get back togethers than there are romantic, right? Yeah, probably. And

[00:31:34] Nina: Rebecca and I also had a meet cute. I’m not going to tell the story, but I just, you and I’ve talked about this on my podcast, but you have a Rebecca.

I have a Rebecca. I have a now best friend again, but at one point was a former best friend, Rebecca. It’s just a special name. I didn’t name my Rebecca for her, but when I had Rebecca, we were already really close again, and I obviously wouldn’t have used the name Rebecca if I had icky feelings about it.

So that really shows how much I let go of any stuff we had between us.

[00:32:05] Rachel: And that definitely is a point of connection. I’ll say my Rebecca, you’ll say your Rebecca, and it’s just some things that we have. Okay. Where can our listeners find you?

[00:32:14] Nina: My Instagram and my TikTok, which I’m embarrassingly on, I’m so sorry, kids, is dear Nina friendship.

And my website is just ninabadzin. com and I’m dear Nina conversations about friendship everywhere you get your podcasts.

[00:32:28] Rachel: It’s a great title, Dear Nina. I love it. Thank you for joining me. I really loved it. And I hope all of our listeners go check out all things, Dear Nina, and learn about some really cool things in the friendship space and be on the lookout for the Friendship Meet Cutes.

Also, if you’re feeling a little bit bad about yourself, put on a cute jacket or a blazer, right?

[00:32:48] Nina: Those are totally the lessons from this episode. I love it.

I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Rachel. I just adore her so much. I feel so lucky to have Rachel as a friend. Again, you can find her podcast at Life’s Accessories, anywhere you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us. Come back next week to Dear Nina. When our friendships are going well, we are happier all around.

Bye.