[00:00:00] Jill: I mean, the nice thing about this situation, which, colossally sucks, is I feel like I sort of am having like a, like the today article that you posted from, sort of had an obituary feel to it, but it was also really

[00:00:15] Nina: some of the comments too

[00:00:16] Jill: Yeah. Very much so. And when people shared it. I was like, hey, this is like a nice little peek into what I otherwise wouldn’t be able to see.

[00:00:28] Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship. Today we’re talking about friendship and other stuff in the face of a very difficult brain cancer diagnosis How’s that so far for an intro Jill?

[00:00:42] Jill: Woohoo! Take a listen. It’s gonna be an upbeat one, guys.

[00:00:46] Nina: Real fun episode. We are talking to my friend, Jill Smokler, who I have known since we were 18 years old at Washington university in St.Louis. She’s been on this podcast before, when we talked about our memories of the heyday of blogging. I was on her podcast, She’s Got Issues, to talk about some friendship issues, and those were really easier topics. Much lighter.

If you don’t know Jill Smokler, she is the founder of the original Scary Mommy, which started as Jill’s personal, amusing, baby book/beginner stage blog in 2008 and became a true sensation. Jill was eventually the first mom blogger to sell her brand to a major media company. As Scary Mommy grew, Jill gave so many women, including me, a huge push in our online writing careers. Her belief in us and her support of our writing pushed us in directions we would not have gone without her. Many consider Jill the fairy godmother of their writing careers.

When Jill started Scary Mommy, I was writing a novel about friendship breakups that was really going nowhere. I rewrote it for years. I sort of got close to an agent with one, but it really didn’t go anywhere. And I credit Jill with opening my mind to what writing on the internet could be. She kind of created the blogging monster in me. Jill had some regrets about the sale. We were, we were monsters. Jill, weren’t we, sort of?

[00:02:02] Jill: Oh, completely. We were obsessed. Yes.

[00:02:05] Nina: Jill had some regrets about that sale of Scary Mommy, at least the details of it. And the way things transpired later with the site, which she has detailed on other podcasts on her own podcast, She’s got issues, which she has since passed on to the next host, Kira. We are not going to go into really that much of that here. She has bigger fish to fry and we have bigger fish to fry today on this episode.

To quote today.com writer, Elise Soleil, who summed it up succinctly: Jill Smokler creator of the website, Scary Mommy, who’s raw and honest writing inspired a generation of mothers to bond over the understanding that parenting isn’t always rainbows and sunshine has been diagnosed with an aggressive form of brain cancer at age 46.

Jill, what is happening?

[00:02:51] Jill: Oh, Nina, so much more fun talking about my business regrets and friendship woes. Yeah, no, not a fun topic at all. And it really came completely out of nowhere. I had never had seizures, never had trouble with my vision, never had really bad headaches, nothing until one day I had a seizure. Unfortunately, my youngest came home and saw me and called an ambulance, and I was brought to the hospital. Immediately you have brain surgery when you have a brain tumor and they don’t know exactly what it is until all the tests come back, which first I think took like five days of misery. But anyway, it sort of came out of nowhere.

Nina: How’d they know to look for a tumor? Why did they not just assume seizure from something else? Or I mean, obviously I’m not a medical person, is that a pretty known number one symptom?

Jill: I think the MRI is when you have a seizure. I mean, I think I might be speaking out of turn. I’m really so uneducated with medical stuff. but yeah, I know they did an MRI and established that yes, there was a tumor. Let’s take it out. So I woke up. My whole family, my stepmom, my dad, my brother, my mom, my kids, my ex husband, just everybody was there when I woke up.

I didn’t recognize people. And the message from the nurses and the doctor was, you’re at Johns Hopkins hospital. You had a brain tumor. It’s been removed. You know, the date is April 15th, 2024. Like it was very just like, matter of fact. So for the first two days, I was awake. I was like, well, isn’t this humorous? Like, so dramatic of me to get a brain tumor, like kind of funny. Like I just had no idea the severity and the ramifications and then we got the results. Yeah, that was just not the best development

[00:04:55] Nina: Was everyone there? Was it just you? Were you with your mom? Did Jeff come?

[00:05:00] Jill: There was some misstep in the communication because we never were actually, like, we never had the conversation where we sat down at the table and the doctor looks at you and with a pain stricken face and you can tell it’s not good news. The doctor just sort of came in and said, well, you know, we know what it is. And we were like, sure. Okay. And then just proceeded to sort of talk and we were like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, so this is stage 4. Well, yes, because that’s it has to be the stage. It was just a very convoluted message and doctors are not known for communicating for a reason. Yeah, here we are. This is I know, I know we have other topics

[00:05:41] Nina: No. Well, this, this is an important piece of it. So he just used the word glioblastoma and like you were supposed to know or didn’t even use that

[00:05:49] Jill: Didn’t even use that word. And I went with my best friend who, thank goodness, is a social worker and knows how to navigate the medical health system, um, and my mom. No, he never actually like used the term. I think he, and granted, they were a lot more knowledgeable than I am on a normal basis I’m not knowledgeable with this stuff, but especially now that my head’s sort of all over the place. I’m definitely not capable of retaining information and making sense of it. So yeah, it was sort of kind of discovering it on our own. And then I realized yeah, this isn’t so funny. This is not a funny brain tumor story that you can just put in your memoir and we’ll just be like a hiccup in the road. This does not have a good ending.

[00:06:36] Nina: Cause you shared on social media about the surgery and that was before you had, I think, the actual type of cancer. Well, no, you knew it was a tumor, but you didn’t know really more than that

[00:06:49] Jill: I was out of the coma, I knew, like I was awake, I knew, who people were I didn’t know the severity of it and it’s very common that it could be benign and it could just be something. So I just assumed that that’s what it was because I’m the opposite of a hypochondriac.

[00:07:07] Nina: Somehow it was established that you would have this surgery and all of us were optimistic. Oh, like, just like you’re saying oh God, that must’ve been so scary, but the word cancer wasn’t being thrown around yet.

[00:07:17] Jill: tumor is not, does not sound nearly as scary as cancer.

[00:07:20] Nina: Yes, but the story changed and On, Instagram and I think Facebook. You, with your very Jill Smokler humor, wrote on May 3rd: Glioblastoma was not on my 2024 bingo card. Alas, here we are. Life changes fast friends.

And that was actually a brilliant way to let people know it’s so many people follow you, adore you. It’s interesting when you’re in this online space, it’s not that you owe people the news, but people would want to know and people can’t support you if they don’t know.

[00:07:50] Jill: It was funny because I, despite, I have such an affinity for social media in some ways, but such resentment and, hatred of it in other ways. But when I woke up, I had like a real, and I, and I have to force myself normally in a business way to promote things on social media. It does not come naturally to me.

But when I woke up for some reason, I just had a desire to put it out there. I just wanted, I think I just wanted as many, like, good vibes as possible, the first message I put out was not the bingo card, it was a picture of myself, which I also am very hesitant to post, and it was a picture with my head, like, halfway down.

So you can see, because they, cut from like, ear to ear, like a headband all the way across and then stapled it back together. And I had black eyes from the impact of it, and I just look like absolute hell. And I posted that picture at 1st, and then, like, 5 minutes went by. And I was like, oh God. I so I ended up taking that down and then putting up, because I was like, what are you doing? If, if you die, like, this is going to be the picture that’s associated with you forever.

[00:09:01] Nina: the one with you and your dog is so much cuter. I’m glad

[00:09:03] Jill: Right. Yeah. It’s a much better representation. Thank you.

[00:09:07] Nina: Let me tell you from the get go, I would do exactly what you did because I don’t feel like you can expect or hope, expect isn’t a great word, you can’t hope for emotional or frankly physical support if people don’t know what you’re going through.

[00:09:19] Jill: That’s true

[00:09:19] Nina: for cancer or anything else. People can’t assume, they don’t, they don’t know what you’re going through. I know people who have been very, very, very private about cancer and to each their own. I, obviously it’s like not for me to decide, but then, I know I always feel as part of a community, you know, cause we have friends and then we have like just wider community. I even think of like the college people who came together. It’s like, it’s not like we were all best friends with each other, but it’s still part of this like bigger WashU community. As part of a community, you can’t really do anything if you don’t know anything.

One thing I’ve been thinking about: you and I were texting a little and you were like have you ever done an episode with somebody who’s in the middle of dealing with cancer and I’m like, no, I’ve really only done in hindsight, you know people come on years later and they talk about what would have been helpful and stuff years later, but I’ve never talked to anybody during a different situation

[00:10:09] Jill: It is when it’s all fresh and it changes constantly. If we were to have this conversation a month ago, it would be very different. I’m sure if we were to have it in 6 months, it would be very different. So we are in the middle of the muck right now. And, we can talk about it.

[00:10:24] Nina: let’s start with what has surprised you for the good. We’ll start with the good.

[00:10:29] Jill: That’s a really good, good place to start. I’d say how kind and generous people have been and people, not who I necessarily didn’t expect it from, but not my inner, you know, core circle or like immediate neighbors, who have as well, obviously. Just people who’ve been so concerned in a genuine way and really wanted to be helpful, that’s been amazing. I mean, the nice thing about this situation, which, colossally sucks is I feel like I sort of am having like a, like the today article that you posted from sort of had an obituary feel to it, but it was also really

[00:11:14] Nina: some of the comments too

[00:11:15] Jill: Yeah. Very much so. And when people shared it. I, but I was like, Hey, this is like a nice little peek into what I otherwise wouldn’t be able to see.

[00:11:22] Nina: that’s true

[00:11:23] Jill: So people have been really nice. I’ve been really impressed with my kids, which is, you know, this is obviously tough for them and they’re struggling in their own ways, but they have been really impressed me.

[00:11:38] Nina: What about their friends?

[00:11:39] Jill: They’ve been, yeah, they’ve been impacted too. And, very sweet about it. Especially, I mean, Lily’s friends. I have much more of a, you know, friendshipy relationship with than I do boys. But they’ve all been very caring, which has been nice. On the plus side, DoorDash gift cards have been amazing. It’s so helpful.

[00:12:02] Nina: It’s the best. Then you order whenever you feel like

[00:12:05] Jill: It’s amazing to look at the phone and have it be like, zero, zero, zero, zero, and you have a whole dinner in front of you. It was amazing. And really, my college friends coming together and being so generous, and you guys got together and sent me door dash gift cards and this ginormous teddy bear. Because in college, my roommate and I both separately, unbeknownst to each other, came to college with giant stuffed animals, actually many of them. So now I have this bear sitting in my, hanging chair that I look at every day, all day. And it makes me happy.

[00:12:44] Nina: So those are some good surprises. Are you ready to talk about anything that is irksome?

[00:12:49] Jill: Well, I say kind of a good slash hard thing has been, from the early blogging days I’m so trained to respond to comments and to have things be a conversation that it’s been very hard to keep up with how many people have reached out supportively who I want to engage with. But I just, I’m so overwhelmed by messages, you know, feel most of the day I’m just sleeping or puking. I just don’t have the energy to really maintain deep relationships with very many people at this point. But it’s so nice that that’s, you know, not the worst problem in the world. It’s a really good problem to have.

[00:13:29] Nina: About online versus the people near you I like you have a ton of online friends, Do you feel like the online stuff’s gonna slip away or do you do you feel that support, like you, I know I hear you saying like you you’re glad to know it’s there and I totally think you’re smart to not spend a lot of time on comments like you just can’t

[00:13:46] Jill: Um, No, I very much feel like it’s there and it wasn’t just there for a fleeting, you know, comment or share or something. I feel like the online community is really strong and supportive.

[00:14:00] Nina: I think so, too. I think people like us get that and it would be hard to understand that if you’re not in it.

[00:14:05] Jill: And it’s very different. I mean, my, Facebook and Scary Mommy relationships are different from like, these new people I’m communicating with on Threads, but it’s kind of nice to be communicating with strangers about things that, you know, I’m just not talking about with other people.

There’s something nice about having, like, a sort of distance relationship where you don’t feel indebted to people. And I can just, when I’m done with the conversation, or yeah, when I’m done with the conversation, I can just shut down the computer and not even say goodbye or whatever. Um, yeah, so I’m surprised that I’m finding those sort of more surface distant relationship valuable now. God, Nina, this is, I can’t believe I’m having trouble focusing on the negative.

[00:14:48] Nina: that’s the best thing and we don’t even have to

[00:14:50] Jill: No, but I want, I mean, we need to, because there’s so much of it, I’m just having

[00:14:54] Nina: is there, okay. So well, I have one question that, that might help you.

[00:14:58] Jill: Yes

[00:14:59] Nina: when people come out of the woodwork, generally if people come out of the woodwork, whether online or people in person. Is that heartwarming or is it like, oh, I don’t really have the bandwidth for this now.

[00:15:12] Jill: It completely depends on the person. For the most part, it’s been very heartwarming. And there are people who I haven’t talked to in years and years and years. And it, you know, it was really nice to hear from, and then there are people that I didn’t like hearing from, like my old boss, who I don’t have a good relationship with and really did not bring me comfort or joy to hear from, friends who I successfully ended relationships with, who have with, you know, wanted to restart friendships. I feel like now is not the time in my life where I want to invest in new relationships. I want to celebrate and enjoy the ones I have. And the last thing I want to do is, I mean, why would I want to invest time into a relationship that really has no future. I mean, I guess if I were someone who lived in the present, then I suppose maybe I would.

But anyway, my point is that there are people who I’ve lost touch with who’ve reemerged and I would like to stick back in the sand and un-emerge them.

[00:16:19] Nina: Do you almost want them to like, say their message and then you can be like, thanks and that’s it. Message has been received,

[00:16:26] Jill: Now unsubscribe.

[00:16:27] Nina: This is where we need the like button, right? And unsubscribe.

[00:16:30] Jill: 1000%. But for the most part, it has been really nice hearing from people. It’s funny how in the early days, it was there. Everybody was there. And now it’s been about, you know, three and a half weeks, I think, and yeah, I don’t hear from nearly as many people, which is completely normal and fine, but also something for people to know is, I think, you know, check in at the beginning, but mark it in your calendar to check in after a few weeks to check in after six weeks, you know, not every day. Cause that’s overwhelming and I don’t want that from anyone. Well, from a couple of people I do, but for most people I don’t. But from an outer circle people who are checking in every couple of weeks that I really appreciate when it’s every couple of days from someone I haven’t talked to in two decades.

It’s like, I, this is too much. It’s overwhelming. It takes too much energy. I feel like I only have such a limited amount of energy right now that I have to be really careful about where I, focus it and I don’t want to focus it on people that, I don’t want to have relationships with.

[00:17:32] Nina: No, that’s wise. And it’s, by the way, really good advice for your kids’ friends. The same thing you said about checking, and if, I don’t know if your kids would ever be able to express that if they could somehow to their friends, but it’s like, you want to say, don’t forget about me, for them, for them too. I’m sure everyone was all in right at the beginning and same thing. Like every couple of weeks they should just hang out and have regular life, but it’s still nice for their friends every so often just to be like, Hey, how you, how you hanging in there?

[00:17:56] Jill: Yeah. No, you’re so right.

[00:17:57] Nina: I guess if anyone hears this and know someone going through a situation like yours, it’s, it’s a good message to give to your teenage children, college age kids too, as well, that when anyone’s going through a crisis, it’s like, don’t just disappear.

[00:18:11] Jill: I think that’s super important. Something else on the bad front, is people thinking they can solve your cancer or that they know someone who knows the secret trick or, you know, if you, if I just start eating avocados and stop eating any sugar and start, practicing yoga for this long, then I will be cured. And It’s just really frustrating and even the ones that, and they all mean well, even people who, say, I’m so sorry. I have a cousin who went through this. Would you like to talk to him? You know, I think it would be helpful.

Even people with that sort of thing, which is so succinct and appreciated and appropriate. I just feel like, oh, I don’t want to talk to your random cousin. I didn’t want to talk to your random cousin before. Like, I don’t want to talk to him now when all we have in common is brain cancer. Right.

[00:19:04] Nina: I agree. Like in the best, you’re right. In the best of circumstances,

[00:19:07] Jill: So then I have to feel so guilty and apologize to the person who’s reaching out to me yeah, so I’m, my advice is not to tell people about your cousin who has a similar ailments, but maybe not have that be the first message and just don’t be repetitive about it. I will note that. And if I want to talk to your cousin, I will follow up. I don’t need to be reminded that your cousin exists on a daily basis.

[00:19:31] Nina: Maybe people could say like, if I don’t hear back from you, I’ll assume that

[00:19:35] Jill: That is the best, that is the best statement when people write that. It, I, I’m so appreciative. They can write whatever they want, and then if they sign off saying you don’t have to respond, just wanted you to know I’m thinking of you, just wanted you to know I love you, whatever, that’s the best thing, because then I can just like it, or love it, and be done with it and just appreciate the thought and not have to pull out 2008 Jill to reply to everything.

[00:20:01] Nina: I love that expression, the 2008 Jill. That’s the, I’m sure that is a pressure you feel to be, the Jill that they met or that they knew online and very funny and very sharp. And you are those things, but like you’re a human being, even without cancer, you can’t be 2008 Jill all the time.

Tell me about the decision and like how fast you made that decision to stop the podcast, stop the online magazine.

[00:20:24] Jill: I made it pretty quickly. yeah, I made it fast. Once I found out the final diagnosis, not when I found out, not when I initially had the brain tumor. I thought that would be just a fun issue to attack, but once I really found out, like, your time is limited, I realized I don’t want to be putting time into a brand, I’ve built a brand already successfully.

I love the She’s Got Issues brand. I think it’s so fun. I think there’s so many directions it can go in. I think it has so much potential. I want to spend my time, if I’m leaving any sort of legacy, if I’m doing something creative, I want it to be for my kids, not for the general public.

And it’s so, I mean, you know how time consuming podcasting is, and then doing this magazine I was doing, it was a full time job. And wasn’t making much money. So to not be doing it for a salary and really be doing it for creative fulfillment and building a business for the future just seemed really futile.

[00:21:23] Nina: It’s beautiful about wanting to do it for your kids. That’s how Scary Mommy started was really just for your kids. If you think about it, that clearly has always been a creative well for you. Do you have some thoughts about what you’re working on? Or if you’re not ready to talk about it, that’s fine too.

[00:21:36] Jill: Yeah, don’t want to share too much because it’s still sort of evolving, but I will say I did, go onto Amazon and order three copies of both of my books, because I didn’t know if they’d be out of print, you know, ever. And I actually ordered, I had done a, book on blurb.com, like a Shutterfly type album of the first year of the blog, that I had one printout of and I ordered two more so that the kids would each have one of, one of those. So, and I’m being very cognizant of putting. equal amount of effort into all three of them, which, goes back to the early days of Scary Mommy when everything had to be even, I had to have the exact same amount of blog posts about each kid. Each kid needed to have, if they had a negative one, I needed to follow it up by a a positive one.

[00:22:21] Nina: Oh, I didn’t know you did it that way. That’s

[00:22:22] Jill: Oh my God. I had a post called my favorite child and I wrote a letter to each of them, and it was the same number of letters

[00:22:32] Nina: Oh

[00:22:32] Jill: in each one, and I was like, I love you all the same! but yeah, so I just, I have to do something creative and fun for myself I want it to be for the kids. The trick is to not have them involved in it. It’s like, you know, wrapping the Christmas Hanukkah gifts and you’re praying your kids don’t walk in. I’ll figure something out.

[00:22:53] Nina: I mean, you’re an artist. I think about how the She’s Got Issue magazine looked and how you change Scary Mommy all the time because you’re a graphic designer. When Jill and I met everybody, she was in art school at WashU. An artist, that’s amazing, who became a writer and you always used to be like, I’m not a writer, but you’re such a natural writer. But it’s nice that you had the visual to go with it. You were the perfect person to come into that online space in the early years.

I’m curious what you want your kids to know about friendship. I’m thinking about like the book you’re making. I’m guessing is a little more visual. This is a friendship podcast, so I have, you know, I have to stay on that a little

[00:23:29] Jill: I think the most important thing that took me a long time to learn was best friends are wonderful, but other than best friends who are amazing and such a gift when you find them, generally, you can’t get everything from one person and you have different, you should have different friends who fill different buckets and not depend on a couple people for absolutely everything. I never had like a tight group of girlfriends, really, because I got partnered so young and like I did in college. But then after that, Jeff and I just were such a couple that I didn’t really have that. And so I got very dependent on a few people for everything and then learned later on in life that there’s a reason to have a larger friend circle.

There’s a reason to have friends who you just go out with, friends who you just do a craft with, or do book club with, or do cooking with, or whatever. It doesn’t need to be like the same five people you do everything with all the time. so that’s something I wish I’d known. I think being the friend you want, I mean, I guess what I’m trying to say is treat others the way you want to be treated, but I think act like the friend you want to have in a friend.

[00:24:49] Nina: beautifully said It’s so true. Yeah, like you Jill you have no idea. I receive I mean my whole thing is I get all these anonymous letters almost every single letter it’s a lot of blame on the other person. I mean, that’s the nature of asking for advice, is like you’re telling me about, you know, the person is telling me about their friend who has wronged them in some way. There’s very little self reflection in these letters. And I always just know, as someone who’s been reading these letters for 10 years, that there’s always, you know, five sides to any story. That’s just great advice to give to your kids and to anyone what’s your part. Basically, it’s kind of what you’re saying.

[00:25:21] Jill: And that it’s effort, that it’s in the same vein, that it, it takes work. It’s a relationship that you have to foster and you have those people who may be one of your groups that are those friends who you can go 10 years without speaking to and then pick right back up and be in the same place and then they’re friends that you really need to spend more time dedicated to. I think just figure out which is which and pay attention to it.

[00:25:46] Nina: I think you get people and it’s why people are drawn to you. And I know this is a subject that you’ve felt frustrated about before. We’ve talked about it on your podcast. Just like some regrets you had about college meeting Jeff so young. I mean, that’s just how it went. Nowadays kids, I don’t know if you find this with your kids, they don’t get in such serious relationships, as young. Once you have a boyfriend, it’s like you have to manage

[00:26:08] Jill: I don’t know. My daughter has had a boyfriend since high school, um, and a lot of her friends have. So I, yeah, I don’t know

[00:26:16] Nina: Oh, maybe it’s different here. It’s just not, I mean, people do, they have, but, it’s pretty friend focused and like the friend group thing, I mean, to an extreme, I think has become so definite. There’s having a group of friends, which I think there’s some security in that, cause it’s nice to have more than one person to count on, like we were talking about, but then this whole idea of the friend group that, unless you’re on this group text, you’re not in it the whole Snapchat groups, all that.

[00:26:40] Jill: no, it seems exhausting. Totally. Yeah, I do not envy

[00:26:45] Nina: No, it’s like so, exact. I want to read one more thing that was from the today.com that I, that you said that I thought was just so well said, of course you said it. You said: all I want to do is spend time with my kids, ideally on a beach, because that’s my happy place. It’s so ridiculously bittersweet. I’m trying to focus on the sweet part. How can friends help you do that? Because I think that’s a very worthy way to spend your time.

[00:27:09] Jill: Hmm, in terms of helping me focus on what is important to me right now, which is the kids, think I’ve found the most value in friends who reach out consistently, but briefly to let me know that they’re there when I have time for it, but with no expectations. I think the no expectations is so important right now.

Because maybe they have them, maybe they don’t, but just let me feel like you don’t have them. Just pretend even if you do, because that’s very important to me right now. People who’ve made us dinners or done things like that has been super helpful because then we actually sit down all of us and it’s not sort of like, uh, can you just get cereal? Can you do this? Like, I’m, mom’s too tired. So that’s been helpful. Also it’s been really nice for the kids to see how much support I have. I think has been really nice for them, not only so they sort of know the foundation of what’s there for them, I hope, but so that they have sort of a, goal for their own lives to have lots of friends and to build lots of support.

[00:28:15] Nina: It’s true. And it’s why I do this whole thing. You can’t, do it alone. What I always love about fostering friendship is that you get, to your point, you get to have more than one, we’re not built to do it alone.

I don’t know if you’ve ever, read, Kate Bowler’s No Cure for Being Human. She talks about getting a cancer diagnosis and it was stage four she’s still here. By the way. I’m not telling you a story about someone who didn’t make it

[00:28:37] Jill: Yep. Thank you. Mm

[00:28:39] Nina: her therapist gave such good advice I just thought that was great advice that you have already taken but it’s good advice or somebody else who may be listening. I’m gonna botch up the story because I don’t want to like make it too long. But her therapist was telling her a story of that, someone had told him, I think about, people who have hiked the Appalachian trail and how everybody follows the direction and they pack what they’re supposed to pack, but then when they get to the first stop, it still ends up being kind of heavy, the bags. The leader usually inevitably ends up saying, is there anything you can put down?

[00:29:07] Jill: hmm.

[00:29:07] Nina: And then they end up finding something. Maybe they didn’t need that one book. Maybe they didn’t need that one notebook that they thought they needed. The therapist felt, that’s very apt for moments like this, like that. Sometimes there’s things we feel we have to carry. Is there anything you could put down? I think you did that with the podcast and you did that with the online magazine and you picked up all that you want to be able to handle and I like your message to people out there that a huge way to help is you’re trying to put stuff down, you’re trying to literally take stuff out of your bag and empty it a little bit so that you could only put things in it you really are focused on and it doesn’t help to have people add something new.

[00:29:42] Jill: No, that’s a good way of looking at it for sure.

[00:29:44] Nina: Is there any thing you, you want to say about friendship,

[00:29:47] Jill: Yes, I would love to shout out my best friend who has been such a ridiculous savior during this time. She was in the hospital when I woke up and constantly for the first couple of weeks at my house, she was an hour away, but was here all the time, is on phone calls with the doctors and with the nurses.She, was a wonderful, amazing friend before, but she’s been a lifeline now.

[00:30:15] Nina: How’d you meet? This is not a college friend.

[00:30:17] Jill: She’s a friend who I met later in life. We met when we were, I guess, in our mid thirties. She has four. So her second, uh, no, her second oldest and my youngest were in, lower school together. So we met through that. Yeah, it’s kind of an unusual friendship because we got so tight in a way that, I mean, maybe it’s more common in your later, not that this is later years, but, yeah, we got very, very tight and I’m so dependent on her right now.

It’s not even funny, she’s been great. I think one other thing I want to mention is something else I appreciate about her is she doesn’t constantly put on like a happy, optimistic face about this. She will break down with me. We will bemoan the fact that we will not be ladies in our 80s drinking pina coladas on the beach, That’s just not going to be what it is.

[00:31:07] Nina: It’s really hard to accept.

[00:31:08] Jill: it’s awful to accept. Yeah, I just feel very cheated in terms, I mean, in terms of friendships too, I feel like, so I’ve built these friendships from, high school, we won’t go into before high school, high school and college and, you know.

You know, after and all this stuff that I had long term plans for and it sucks to not reap those rewards. That really frustrates me and I feel very robbed of that future. I just wanted to shout her out and shout out the unusual best friends who, if you’re lucky enough to have, then you know what I’m talking about.

[00:31:47] Nina: I think sometimes people don’t know what they’re capable of until a moment like this arises. Maybe she knew she’d be the kind of friend who would be on the doctors calls, but I don’t know. Do you think so?

[00:31:57] Jill: Yes, it didn’t surprise me. And I think it’s very much in line with her personality and the type of friend she was before. But. the degree to which she shook up her whole life and her whole routine and balancing all of her stuff to prioritize me was way above and beyond.

[00:32:14] Nina: I want to tell you something. I think you are also being a good friend by giving her the opportunity to be this close to you right now. Again, there’s not a right or wrong, but there are a lot of people who would choose to really get super, super, super insular, maybe the kids, your mom, that might just be like all you want to do because you don’t want to have some friends and not others. And so sometimes people shut everyone else out. And so by you allowing her this close in, I mean, it’s a gift to her too, because she gets to continue to have your friendship right now.

[00:32:43] Jill: It’s a nice way of looking at it.

[00:32:45] Nina: I’m glad you have her,

[00:32:46] Jill: Me too. And I’m glad I have you and I’m glad I have, my community of people who are listening to this and, support’s really important.

[00:32:54] Nina: Okay, Jill, this is like impossible episode to end because I don’t want to stop talking to you. It’s, it’s a big important topic, you’ve got to be tired and it’s a long day.

[00:33:05] Jill: Yeah. Yeah. No, it’s, uh, this is about the time that I, uh, lay down and fall asleep for a good two hours. And that could be said for whatever time you are listening to this episode. I need to lay down and take a nap.

[00:33:19] Nina: I’m glad you can nap. I’m glad you could sleep. That’s always my biggest worry for people when they’re not feeling good. It’s like, if you also can’t sleep on top of that

[00:33:26] Jill: I don’t know, just, I know this isn’t what the episode is about, but just fast shout out to people who have cancer and work full time because it is a full time job. Seriously. I don’t know how people do that.

[00:33:39] Nina: Jill, thank you for having this conversation with me. I know there’s a lot of people who want to talk to you and hear from you and I’m honored that you had it here with me.

[00:33:48] Jill: There is nobody I’d rather be talking to.

[00:33:51] Nina: I’m so grateful to Jill for having this conversation with me. Jill has been just an incredible supporter, of so many people. I know there’s an outpouring of love for her. As we learned here today, she does really love to hear from people and with that, no expectation to have to write back. And I think that’s something that those of us out here who know Jill in person or who know her online can continue to give back to her is just that. Love and support thank you for being here, everybody. See you next time.