[00:00:00] Meghan: This all happened to me, by the way, in my forties.

Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina, Conversations About Friendship. Today is kind of a tough topic I’m not going to promise you that we come to any conclusions at the end. I’m speaking to Meghan Judge. We talk about a time in her life, not that long ago, in her 40s. And she’s still in that era. We talk about being dropped from an entire group of friends. And I know that I have listeners out there who this has happened to.

I know I have listeners out there because you write to me who are dealing with this on behalf of your kids and your kids are dealing with it. But you know, you feel it of course, as their parent. Meghan talks about all kinds of topics on her own podcast, Judging Meghan. Isn’t that a great name? Her name is Meghan Judge.

Her podcast and her Instagram is Judging Meghan, Meghan with an H. You can learn a lot about her story. I’m going to be on her podcast too. I’m not sure which order they’re going to be released in because that’s, how it goes in the podcasting world. she talks a lot about, complex PTSD on her podcast, mental health, suicide. Many important topics. Friendship is included in that.

The story that she tells us on the podcast today about being dropped from a group of friends is not rare, meaning it happens to a lot of people. I think her exact story is a little more extreme in terms of the age of the women involved and just the drastic kind of sudden drop. But if you listen to her story, you will see how there were hints along the way that this was not the right group for her. And that’s a message that I think both of us want to get across too, which is to listen to that voice. Usually it’s not such a quiet voice. Sometimes it’s a loud voice. Again, I know, because I hear from so many of you. We talk about it in the Facebook group, Dear Nina: The Group. It comes up now and then, where people will talk about how they’re getting this feeling like this friend is pulling away or this friend is not as interested. And a lot of times you’re getting that feeling for a reason.

I think sometimes we hold on to friendships, longer than we really should. Maybe because we’ve invested so much in it or these people are connected to other people that you don’t want to lose in your life.

And there’s all kinds of sensible and reasonable explanations for why you would let a friendship that isn’t feeling good, for any number of reasons, go on longer than it should. I hope that this episode encourages you to listen to your gut when you feel this isn’t the right group for you.

Or maybe if your kids need help feeling that this is not the right group for them. But again, I’m not a person who likes to give you false promises in an episode. Meghan’s still dealing with the fallout of being dropped from a group. She has made other friends, but she is not at a place where she can tell you this is exactly why it happened. This is exactly what you do to climb out of it.

All she can do is tell us her story, And encourage other people that they could make it out to it’s a very painful situation. So I’m going to introduce you to Meghan who was really, even though it was a heavy topic, an absolute delight to talk to.

[00:03:18] Nina: Meghan. Welcome to dear Nina.

[00:03:21] Meghan: I’m so happy to be on today and already love you. I can already tell in our conversation that we just had.

[00:03:27] Nina: that happens sometimes. And it’s so fun to talk to another podcaster because we get that instant, there’s a click or there’s not. And you know, it in a second,

[00:03:37] Meghan: I love it. I don’t know about you, but it’s rare where I have somebody where you’re like, Oh, what am I going to do? It’s rare that that happens, but it does happen. And you’re like, Oh,

[00:03:47] Nina: . Well, the reason I wanted to have you on my show is I think my listeners are really going to be intrigued by your story because I’ve done several friendship breakup stories, whether personal ones, I did one with my own best friend on the show. We had a full breakup.We did not speak for three years and we on the show, each told our story. We were already reconnected by then for many years. I’ve done other episodes on friendship breakups that are a little more general than that. Getting over it or the grief that comes with it. I have never done an episode, though, I’ve received letters about it, about an adult dropped from a beloved group of friends. I am so appreciative of your willingness to share your story and I’m going to hand it over to

[00:04:27] Meghan: Okay. Well, here’s the thing that I’m going to say. I’m going to take back beloved because they’re not beloved I was thinking about this last night and I’ll tell you kind of, as we go on what happened to me last night, cause it was pretty horrific. I started my own podcast and I kind of told this friendship breakup, but for me, the reason why I have a harder time processing all of this stuff, cause your listeners or you, when you hear this might be like, what the hell, this doesn’t happen. And I’ve told stories over the years and I’ve had so many listeners reach out to me and be like, I had something like that happened to me too. I constantly question what is the deal with women? why can’t we be more supportive of each other?

[00:05:10] Nina: Absolutely. It’s a real major thing. I get plenty of, uh, letters asking about it. I just haven’t had the right guest,

[00:05:16] Meghan: Here I go, Nina and audience. So I’ll make this as brief as possible because it’s kind of a saga and it almost doesn’t seem real. It sounds like an episode. I’m a big Bravo fan. I was a theater major in college. I’ve always been dramatic my whole life. I grew up outside DC.

I’ve had my same group of friends from childhood. I’m still best friends with many of my friends from growing up in high school and college. And I did go to like all girls boarding school for a couple of years. And I did have little fights. I had a break, not even a friend, well, a friend fight with my roommate.

Cause sometimes when girls live together, the girls jumped on, but it was never to the point where this has happened to me. Okay. So in a nutshell, I live in a very small beach town outside of Los Angeles, there’s three pockets of cities.

So, like, one’s Redondo Beach, one’s Hermosa, one’s Manhattan. My kids go to school in Manhattan Beach. the audience should know I’m a trauma survivor from a really young age. I lost my dad, my sister and my very best friend, very, very tragically, in my late twenties and she was my entire world.

[00:06:29] Nina: That’s so much loss at such a young age. I mean all, yeah.

[00:06:32] Meghan: So I was diagnosed in 2020, 2021 with complex PTSD stemming from what I went through and I say that because I want your audience to know kind of the history before I say how this all affected me. I was in the preschool, I moved to the beach area from West Hollywood.

My husband was an actor for years. I used to be a pursuing acting and singing. And then I went into sales and I moved to this beach city. And everyone’s like, when you become a mom, you meet new friends and all this stuff. So I see this woman and I’m in preschool. She just had this big giant smile. She reminded me a little bit of my best friend that I lost.

And I say that now because it kind of pieces all together why I put up with certain stuff. she was super funny somebody you just see and you’re like, Oh, I want to be friends with her. she looks fun and interesting. And our kids became fast friends and the friendship became a very, very fast friendship to the point where we were within six months of being friends, we’re going on vacations and, being like, we’re best friends. I love you. I love you too. Too fast in my opinion now.

[00:07:41] Nina: In hindsight, right? You can see that. Mm

[00:07:43] Meghan: an adult, like as being through all of this. I live in this community and it, it’s very, very small. Although it’s Los Angeles, it’s like a two mile radius. It’s very affluent the women are very caught up in where you vacation, what you’re wearing and don’t get me wrong.

I love a good bag and shoe, but that’s all it’s about. so I kind of got into this friendship and I noticed probably a year in She was starting to like, not do such nice things to me. Women didn’t like me necessarily as much as her. I’m very opinionated and loud. I always have been. And there’s a lot of Women in this town that wear hair ribbons and I’m just not that girl. Yeah. I’m just not.

[00:08:26] Nina: that’s a different planet. I live in Minnesota.

[00:08:29] Meghan: I can tell. I hear the Minnesota.  And Midwest people, by the way, are the best. so it just kind of tuRned into this thing where we became close really fast. And then this group of women in this school, I’ll say that cause my kids are still there. we’re planning things. And this one mom just never liked me from the beginning. it turned into this thing where the one friend, I’m going to call her Joanne today because I don’t want to, Use names, but Joanne started making plans with this other mom called Bobby Sue. That’s going to be her name together. We were probably in total friends for four years.

These years of this friendship were erased, and I was replaced with this other woman, if that makes sense. And these other side characters were All these women in this group that were like, so desperate to be part of whatever this mom group was, that’s in quotes, cool. There would be dinners where 10 women and everyone would be let’s get a group shot and post it on Facebook or Instagram. And we’re all wearing our outfits, a lot of that kind of stuff. I just like started noticing that she wasn’t as nice to me in group situations.

And at that point, our husbands were friends, our daughters were very best friends. We were very involved in their family and their kids lives.

Throughout this time, this new group, it’s kind of complicated to talk about where it pieces together and makes sense, but this new group of moms got into wanting to be in the friendship group. There was this one mom and I was like, Oh, let’s let Sandy come on into the friendship, brought her the dinners and all this stuff. These women, just one side of the group were kind of on the side of, the one friend, the head friend who I think, what was her name? Now I’m forgetting what I named her, Joanne. Joanne. And so Joanne and Bobby Sue were, at one point of the friendship and then I had another friend in there that I was super close to and then the new kind of friends.

This group of women and I would go to dinners and I would catch Joanne if I was telling a story in a group, big group of women, rolling her eyes when I was talking. We would make plans together and she would, cause our kids were friends too, after a dance performance.

And she would just be like, Oh, I can’t do that. We’re going to the yacht club with whatever, Sandy Joe or whatever the girl’s name is. she just kept ditching me. but I kept putting up with it because this was my group of friends. This is what I had made in this, year.

[00:10:59] Nina: you invest so much like that happens you put in a lot of time and you’re like,

Meghan: well I’ll just I’m skipping over like a lot of it because it’s so long, there were vacations, girls trips with these women. every time I went out with this group of moms, somebody was trashed.

[00:11:15] Meghan: somebody would get up to go to the bathroom and somebody would be like, Oh my God, she’s totally lying about her age. And I’m no saint by the way. I was also in on it. Feeling like I needed to be accepted and talking about other people to be relevant, which is absolutely not okay. And the final straw was Joanne planned this trip to, I’m saying Bermuda, but it wasn’t really Bermuda and they were all going to go on this boat together and it was somebody friends that were my friends as well. And then the new, the other friend that never was nice to me then one of the new moms that was in the group of friends that I kind of had been friendly with came up at this school event and was like, Oh, do you know about the trip?

And I was like, what trip, what are you talking  about? It was at my youngest daughter’s preschool fair. she comes up and it was almost like the girl had swallowed a canary. she wanted to see me in pain and I just said, what are you talking about? and the one girl wasn’t invited either, but she was one of the newer friends that was brought into the group. I had never been anything but nice to this girl, by the way. so I call this group of moms on my podcast, the Karens, by the way,

[00:12:23] Nina: Pause for one second. We won’t spend a lot of time in this point. but I just want to say that you were exactly right that there’s a certain kind of person who really relishes in sharing a piece of news that they know is gonna humiliate you in some way, even if it’s not public, but just in that private interaction, they are letting you know that you’re not as smart as you think you are, there’s something happening among this group of friends that you don’t know about, I know something you don’t know, even if she wasn’t included either.

For anyone listening, keep your eye on the person who is sharing news with you that even if they’re saying it to ,oh, I just want you to know that well, is that why they want you to know? Or do they want to make sure that you know, you’re not as close as those people as you think you be wary.

[00:13:02] Meghan: the friend, had already started pulling away these women were like, so desperate to be part of this group and be relevant in this teeny tiny community. And I was somebody that had lots of friends. After that happened, I picked up the phone or I didn’t even pick up the phone. I texted her and I was like, is this a joke? to be humiliated to that extent when I had given her multiple outs, we had been on a trip to Las Vegas months before.

She had done something mean and stayed in a separate hotel with her new best friend and not told me just weird stuff. And I had been like, are we good? and then we would get in this, these huge fights. It was incredibly mean and incredibly cruel.

[00:13:43] Nina: she dragged you along for years

[00:13:55] Meghan: I can tell you looking back on the friendship, which was an extremely toxic friendship, I cared about her. I thought we were close friends. I was not listening to my gut, put it that way. I believe your listeners should know and always listen to your gut.

Months went on. Half the friends stuck with me and then the other ones obviously went with her. one of the new friends, which I call the queen of all Karens, cause she’s like one of the most horrific people I’ve ever met in my entire life, was just waiting for me to mess up and do something so she could be relevant in this town and go to her.

We had this Mom’s event for our kids, our kids were in kindergarten. I had been at a bar with a new friend of mine and I had drank on an empty stomach and then I went to the event and it was stuff I had been holding in for months. This girl comes up to me, she grabs me from my back, under my ribs and I’m not somebody that likes to be grabbed.

And she goes, Hey, Meghan, Hey, Hey, and I turn around and I go, , get the F away from me. there were At the time, probably like five women. And I said it because the woman that she had replaced, that’s, Joanne had replaced me with , Bobby Jo, or whatever the name was that I made up, was standing there, around this island, smiling, like she was happy about it

[00:15:07] Nina: the downfall watching it.

[00:15:09] Meghan: three of them standing there were like, what the hell just happened? I go to bed that night. I wake up the next day, I get a text message, from the one woman that I call the queen of all Karens. And it was like, what the hell is wrong with you? You’re the worst person I’ve ever met in my life. Then I had friends that were like, what’s wrong with you? Never spoke to me again.

[00:15:30] Nina: from

[00:15:31] Meghan: this

[00:15:31] Nina: I just want to make sure listeners are capturing this this one kind of like, we could call it a mistake.

[00:15:36] Meghan: She went to this, my kid’s school and told the principal, cause I’ve been told that. She trashed me all over the, the local country club. My public school mom friends were like, I heard Meghan, are you okay? that doesn’t sound like you. she also told the school that every single mom in the class was there.

[00:15:54] Nina: first of all, what would the principal just, I know this is belaboring, but like, what was the principal going to do about it? Working out

[00:15:59] Meghan: don’t, I honestly don’t know. Nina, that was my downfall. And then it was COVID and I was working a sales job and I literally have never in my life been that torn down and that low. All of my trauma came up. And I like didn’t even want to live when that happened. and P. S. the women that I call the Karens continue to torture me to this day. And this was five years ago

[00:16:25] Nina: what about your kids and their kids?

[00:16:27] Meghan: So the one mom, Joanne, thankfully, moved away. But she also told her daughter. You know, my daughter is now 14 and going off to high school, but at the time they were probably like 10. Just told her daughter, I keep calling Meghan and she’s not returning my phone calls. Then my daughter would find out at school. She didn’t understand these are young kids.

[00:16:49] Nina: There are definitely people out there listening who are in the middle of maybe not, as outwardly nasty version of this, but a much more subtle, the letters I get are like more, but same, same end. different details, but the same end, the end being, these are really not my friends, they see that people are doing stuff without them. They’re not invited on a trip. nobody maybe comes up to them to say you’re not invited on a trip, but it’s kind of clear that You’re not really a fit or that you’re not, you never really feel welcomed.

Like you said earlier, and it’s so true that listen to your gut. Meghan, I get letters that are so clear to me that this person should not be friends. They’ll say stuff like, and then this happened and I wasn’t invited on this, and when I came, no one talked to me or they rolled their eyes or all these things. A lot of times they’re anonymous. I have a form on my website that does not require an email address. I wish I could talk to some of them personally and just say these people are not your friends. Cause the advice they want usually is like, well, what should I do? Should I talk to them? Should I do it? And I want to be like, no, you are barking up the wrong tree

[00:17:47] Meghan: I like to say It’s like fitting your size 8 10, butt into a size 4 jean. It’s not gonna work sister,

[00:17:53] Nina: It’s not a

[00:17:54] Meghan: a fit.

[00:17:55] Nina: There’s

[00:17:55] Meghan: other jeans.

[00:17:56] Nina: it’s not that easy to just completely switch friends. I know that. It’s very easy to sit here and be like, Oh, you should just get new friends. I know that. It’s an entire process and it takes years, but it doesn’t happen unless you start.

And so if, we’re hanging on to people where you just know in your heart, like these people aren’t that nice to me. They don’t like me that much. Whatever reason, we can be self effacing. I’ve had, had many times you described yourself in a way that I also have described myself, which is I can be a little loud, a little opinionated, depends on the environment, but, I can tell immediately when I’m too much. And instead of trying to win them over, although I used to, I’m always try to win everyone over. I just like, okay, I’m not for them. They’re not for me either.

[00:18:37] Meghan: I think it’s hard though being in a, I don’t know, I grew up in, Washington DC, and it was very spread out. it’s almost like I live in a small town. everybody is into everybody else’s business. And I never have had experienced something like that. Although I went to a teeny tiny boarding school, even The dad’s got involved. It almost sounds like it’s a movie, this truly happened to me. it’s happened to other women in my town too, something similar. So it’s not just me.

[00:19:09] Nina: So how did you, rise above it. People were like, I’m done with Meghan. She’s not part of the group anymore, you know, in their own ways. And then it was COVID, so everyone was basically home. you were as low as you’ve been, and you’ve, you’ve had some hard times, I know. What do you feel you did to climb out of it?

[00:19:24] Meghan: I mean, to be honest with you, I don’t know if I’ll truly ever be out of it one of my kids just graduated the school. So it’s being in the school. I should have probably taken her out when this all happened. But at the time I wanted to do what was right for my kid. She wanted to stay there. In hindsight, I probably should have taken her out. And I still have another kid at the school that’s in fourth grade now going into fifth. and she loves the school and she’s happy. you know what? I want people listening to know I’ve made great friends again.

And I have all of my friends from growing up and it made me honestly more appreciative of what I had in my real friends. it definitely made me grow up a bit about picking friends, so I keep it small now. I don’t do like giant group dinners and take pictures with my giant group of friends. I just don’t do that.

Social media is horrific I had to block all these women. I block pretty much everyone when they try to, and they have little followers that still follow me and, still trash me at community events and the more that they do it to me, the more it just fires me up to like truly become a better person. that’s why I do what I do because I could have just given up and I was very close to that to be honest with you, just with everything in my life at one point. I just decided, I’m not going down that way. I’m going to do something and change the things I need to change about myself. so I worked on that, but I’m no saint. I’m heavily flawed. I give the middle finger when I drive by the queen of all Karen’s house whenever I can. yeah, I mean, I’m very open with the fact that they did detrimental harm to my family.

My children specifically, even more so than what you do to me, what you did to my kids and my husband, because he was friends with all these guys too, and

[00:21:16] Nina: Oh, I’m glad you brought that up. So did though did the husband’s drop him?

[00:21:20] Meghan: They just went along with their wives. My husband grew up here though, and he’s just like super strong and doesn’t care. He’s very different He’s a Southern California guy. he’s from here. He has all his childhood friends He’s really a genuine real person. So he wasn’t like here for all the BS fraternity stuff

[00:21:37] Nina: he was totally annoyed you dragged him into it in the first place like that happens when couples where it’s like the one one of the couples is probably like why are we hanging

[00:21:45] Meghan: Oh, he was totally like that, although he like, like some of them, you know, like he really did. So it was hard for him. I’m never going to take that away from him. And it’s been hard for him to deal with all of this because there’s still fricking drama that goes on. I’m going to give you an example because it literally just happened last night. I’m a podcaster and  thankfully like magazines and people are starting to notice me and I’m forever grateful for that because my platform is truly just to help other people. It’s all about mental health and suicide prevention.

A friend of mine she does reels and we did a series of reels together. We’re talking about why I started the podcast, what I’m doing today. And I do say in the beginning of one of them, why I started it. And I said something like, you know, I was in this group of friends and they pounced, that’s all I say in it. One of the, the one that, what did I name her? Sandy? I don’t know. Bobby Joe’s friend or Bobby Joe. Joanne’s friend, Bobby

[00:22:43] Nina: Oh, Bobby Joe. Bobby Joe.

[00:22:45] Meghan: I tried to keep it so like nobody would know because nobody has that name. but she reached out to my friend that had posted these reels and she wrote, and this is some, my dear friend that she was following.

My friend was not following her back. She wrote something along the lines of, I’m no longer going to going to follow you that you’re supporting. Meghan judge. She’s the most horrible person I have ever met. Shame on her. That’s a loose quote. This just happened last night.

[00:23:15] Nina: Oh,

[00:23:16] Meghan: It’s won’t stop. Yeah. And so my friend of course, responded and she was like, what the hell is wrong? I don’t, I mean, I can’t quote what it said, but this is a true friend of mine and you know, she was like, Meghan’s a good person, does stuff to help other people. Grow up, It’s still happening. Mm

[00:23:33] Nina: Thank God for a friend like that. You know, I’m thinking about it. This kind of thing happening to teens and kids. One thing you would have going for you and any adult in this Situation even though when you’re in it, it’s horrific and I don’t mean to downplay it but in your situations Specifically, you had a loving husband.

You had your children and you had these childhood friends Even if they were out of town. You were at such a low point, but you had those couple of positive things in the basket to draw on. And even with that, even with that, you were as low as it gets. Had this podcast to help other people to not make a mistake that is not repairable.

I’m thinking of teens and kids. I do hear from parents and sometimes from kids when their kids have been dropped from a group, and it is like the most devastating thing. And you can really understand why, because they don’t have these other childhood friends to draw on. Those were the childhood friends in some ways. There is no, significant other. They had their parents, not in all cases do they have two parents, you know, but hopefully there’s some parental figure. It’s like, gosh, how do we help these people have the perspective you have now as an adult you can make it through it and you’re still living in it. You’re still living in the same town you’ve risen up.

[00:24:40] Meghan: I

[00:24:40] Nina: I don’t know what it

[00:24:42] Meghan: no, I mean, it’s a great thought. I mean, it’s difficult when you’re a mom. I have two daughters. So I have to remind myself, what do you tell your kids? cause this does affect them and,

[00:24:54] Nina: and happens to them. I mean kids get

[00:24:55] Meghan: my oldest has through it for sure, and they can’t handle it.

That’s the other thing. So their brains aren’t fully developed. I have a fully, well, I don’t know how fully developed it is and all kidding aside. I can’t even handle this stuff. It’s debilitating to deal with this I know sometimes when I tell the story, it’s like, well, what did you do? I spent years trying to figure that out. did I do things wrong? Yeah. But not anything to them directly, I mean, after it happened and they all were horrible to me, I obviously told everybody and their mother. what are you supposed to do? I’m a human being.

Yeah, I’m a human being and they, destroyed my life. And then to build my life back up the way that I have and truly know when I put my head on my pillow at night I’m doing the best I can to stay here so leave me alone so I don’t know what the answer is to like your question because I’m not even there I’m just one foot in front of the other I truly am,

[00:25:54] Nina: you said something earlier I think is really key you said after you we’re able to think about new friends. I mean, these are my, I’m paraphrasing, you stop focusing on a group, having a group. It’s like kind of identifying who’s a good friend. And I guess that’s the best we could tell to our teens and kids when they have these situations where they’re dropped from the group chat. You know, the group chat is the most important thing. these group of friends are so exact now. I had Dr. Lisa Damour on, who works with teenagers a lot, and she pushes her own listeners on that. You really don’t need a group. It seems like you need a group. Everyone feels like you need a group because you see other groups and you’re like, well, I want that I want to automatically have ten people to go to homecoming with I want to know exactly who’s in my prom group and if you Have a group chat that’s functioning for three years of high school and you know exactly who’s in it Well, then you know who’s in it Going in your prom group. There’s no decisions to make. And I think people crave that. They just want to know. But if we could get more kids to understand, well, it might look nice to have a group as you know, there is always infighting in that group and things are not as rosy as they seem. And if you just have a good friend or two, you just got to get through high school. you can do it. it’s not forever.

[00:26:59] Meghan: you have to get through life. I can say now, the friends that I keep close I used to be very social. I was out every Thursday night and the weekends we had plans in the families and the families that would go to the beach and groups. I don’t do that anymore. I go to onesie Tuesday dinners. I know that if I’m not present at something and somebody is talking about me or trashing me, the dear friends that I do have will have my back. An example is what just happened last night.

[00:27:29] Nina: That’s a beautiful story. Actually, if you think about it, if you think about that story through a different lens, it’s actually an incredible story of a true friend that you probably knew was a true friend, but now you know, even more so.

[00:27:39] Meghan: I’ve kind of rebuilt myself even though I didn’t want to, and it’s still hard to deal with this. I’m not going to lie. And if somebody is going through, a friend breakup, it’s really difficult. Hopefully you’re not in a very small town when that all went down, I couldn’t even go to target. People would turn the other way. It was as if I was wearing like a scarlet letter.

[00:28:01] Nina: that’s, I kept thinking scarlet letter when you were talking. I was, I was and the crime was so. It’s unclear, like in the Scarlet Letter, her supposed crime was adultery, you know, she had to wear the A.

[00:28:11] Meghan: my crime was that I stood up for myself. I can tell you this. I’ve heard in fighting in their little group, I don’t even think they’re all still friends I don’t keep up with it. I don’t really give a hoot about who’s friends with who anymore. I care about like my front, my close friends and my family and my daughters. That’s what I care about and my husband. If they’re going to do it to me, they’re going to do it to somebody else. I wanted to be in this big group because I wanted to feel protected cause deep down I was super insecure. So if I said mean things about people, it was because I was insecure.

Yeah. I wasn’t happy with myself. And so I know they’re all not happy with themselves unless they’ve changed, but they haven’t. And I’m never going to get an apology. And they’ve made up whatever their narrative is that they’re spreading to everyone else in town. And I know all of that.

[00:29:00] Nina: what do you feel just as we wrap up, your overall message on this story, because it really has changed your life what would you want my listeners to know about rising up after something like this or during

[00:29:14] Meghan: I would say if you’re in a situation like this, I, pray to God you’re not because there’s nothing. I mean, like I said, I lost my dad at 13, my best friend at 28, 29 and I lost my sister in front of my, when I was two years old, the paramedics came and took her out. None of that pain was as painful as this. None of it.

[00:29:35] Nina: Wow.

[00:29:36] Meghan: so when I tell you I’m with you listener, if you’re going through this and I just want you to know if you’re in the thick of something like this, there’s hope. you can get out. I tell my listeners all the time, keep going. You matter. Your story matters. not everybody’s going to start a podcast and talk about this and be open to it.

And that’s part of why I do this, because I want people to know that they matter. but it’s hard and it’s going to be hard, but you’re worth fighting for. I’m worth fighting for. I’m a fricking good friend and I’m funny as hell

[00:30:08] Nina: Yes,

[00:30:09] Meghan: it’s their loss. I know

[00:30:11] Nina: that’s yes, that is right. I would add to that, for listeners and people who write to me that, the more time we spend sort of dwelling on the people who have rejected us, because that’s like what it comes down to is that that’s that rejection and it’s very hard to get over, especially when it’s a group. it’s just the power in numbers.

there are other people out there who either have been hurt and rejected as well, or just were never group people. Cause maybe they actually saw something we were unable to see they were just like, no, thank you, but still might be lonely, still might to have someone to go on a one off dinner with, when you’re ready, it doesn’t happen right away.

But to crawl up and maybe you could be a lifeline for someone else who’s looking for a friend and not a group. I just can’t urge that enough. Not that no groups work, but many groups have problems.

[00:30:55] Meghan: A hundred percent. I’ve had many years to think about why this happened and I think that women are taught from a really young age to be I don’t know if it’s because of boys or what it is that we’re taught to be like, competitive with each other.And, moms want their kid to be like included and popular and all these things. So they’re kind of like, we’ll overlook bad behavior.

[00:31:18] Nina: Oh, wait, I have one last thing to tell you related to this topic. David Sedaris is one of my favorite writers. I just love him so much. And he has an essay of course I don’t remember the name, but I’ll put it in the show notes. And it’s in one of his older, older books, the one with Corduroy in the title. He talks about, how the concept of celebrity is so strange. If an alien were looking on earth, like we worship a certain celebrity, but this alien would be like, who’s Jennifer Aniston? it means nothing. And he’s like, that is true though, for the popular group in your little town or the, you know, the cool moms in your little town mean nothing to the quote unquote cool moms in my little town. There’s no such thing as the popular group. It only means something because we let it but it actually is not real.

[00:31:57] Meghan: they’re like

[00:31:58] Nina: he said

[00:31:58] Meghan: a self proclaimed popular group. I guess they’re popular in like, in like a school of I don’t even know. And I don’t even know if they are, and nor do I care, but they think they are. That’s the thing that’s funny.

[00:32:10] Nina: but no, you get sucked in. We’ve all gotten sucked in, and like our kids get sucked in. They want to be part of a thing, and you have to really be like, why? Why do you want to be part of this thing? who are

[00:32:18] Meghan: Go find go find the people, I’m not, and I’m sorry, I’ll shut up after this, but something I do I’m so appreciative of how I’ve kind of evolved as a human and I’m getting older. this all happened to me, by the way, in my forties. My mom, tells me stories about getting burned when she was in her sixties. this is a common theme with women. Maybe not to the extent that it happened to me, but it does happen. when this all happened, like now my friends that I’m friends with, I have real conversations with them about What’s going on in the world?

what matters? How we age? What are we doing to better ourselves? I never talked to those women about that. It was always superficial, And now it’s like. Let’s get to the bottom of something that’s important. I could just sit there and talk to them about really important things.

And so we touched on earlier, I’m so grateful because that all of that stuff made me learn what I really wanted in a friend moving forward. And now I know, and that’s why I keep it small. if I’m not going to grow with you in a friendship and I don’t feel like you’re a good fit, it’s kind of like dating, I’ll be nice to you and we’ll be friendly, I just don’t want to pursue a friendship with you and vice versa. I’m not everybody’s cup of tea obviously either. So that’s fine.

[00:33:37] Nina: Meghan, thank you so much for being here. I know we could talk forever, so I’m glad we have a chance to talk again on your podcast. You have such a great name. Your actual name and the name of your podcast. Just tell everybody the name of your podcast and your

[00:33:48] Meghan: So thanks Nina. I loved being on and just adore you. I’m so excited to have you on. So my podcast is called Judging Meghan. And that’s with an H. And I was the original Meghan before Princess Meghan, who’s now not a princess anymore. So Judging Meghan, and my name’s Meghan Judge. and you can follow me on Instagram at Judging Meghan.

[00:34:10] Nina: All right, listeners, we’ll see you next week as I say at the end of every episode, when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around. Bye.