[00:00:00] SC Perot: I Think friendships that are formed over a shared interest or a hobby, they’re not superficial. They’re just uncomplicated. And that’s such a beautiful thing because what I was not talking about was the intensity of my life upheaval and everything I was going through and we just got to become friends based on loving the same music and it was a beautiful, a beautiful thing.

[00:00:26] Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina, conversations about friendship. I am Nina Badzin. I am your host. I’ve been writing about friendship since 2014. And I actually sent out a listener survey that lucky enough, I’d already had this episode in the works before I got the results back, but now I have seen the results.

And so I’m happy to tell you that Some of the feedback I got was mostly positive, and I’m not just saying that to pat my own back. I also think, people don’t go out of their way to fill out surveys that they are going to have a lot of negative things to say about because it’s really my most dedicated listeners and readers from the newsletter and listeners of the podcast lot of it came from my Facebook group at Dear Nina, the group, which is really becoming a beautiful community of people helping each other with friendship problems and talking about what we’re reading and watching and cooking and all kinds of good stuff. But that’s where I first put the survey. And then I put it on the newsletter at DearNina.substack. com. I did hear more from the Facebook group than the newsletter readers that some people would really like to see more guests who are going through a divorce or single don’t have kids. Today’s guest SC Perot, who is the author of the brand new memoir Styles of Joy fits all of those.

The book is about her divorce and her intense grief after the divorce and how she dealt with it in an unexpected way. This is a story about meeting new people and finding a new community through fandom, through the intense joy that comes with being a major fan and this isn’t something she was expecting. The story is not about something she has loved her entire life and then finally made time for or how it became the thing that saved her because it was always something she had in her corner. No, this was a brand new joy in her life. A brand new fan of, I’m just going to tell you now, she discovered Harry Styles and his concerts as an adult. You will get such a kick out of her we are quite a bit apart in age. I am 48 and SC is newly 34. So we have totally different references and She does not have kids. I have four kids. we are very different. And I’m also. Not a Harry Styles fan, meaning I like Harry Styles. I’m not a super fan like SC is. So I learned a lot about that too, reading the book. And not of a concert goer either.

So I just learned about concert life. This is a very unusual story and yet the themes of how to make friends, how to put yourself out there saying why not , saying yes when people invite you to something, even if it’s someone you don’t know that well, even if it’s just something that you wouldn’t normally have said yes to, especially when you’re in a time when you are wanting to make new friends or break out of a social rut, or have more joy in your life.

I am so excited for you to meet S C. She’s a graduate of stanford Law School and a professor at Vanderbilt University in Nashville. She also is from Texas. There’s a lot of interesting things.

It’s all going to be in the show notes Here we go.Okay. Hi, SC. Welcome to Dear Nina.

[00:03:25] SC Perot: Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited about this one.

[00:03:29] Nina: It is so fun to read an entire book and be so into it and then get to talk to the author. It’s one of the biggest joys, of having a podcast. So thank you for being on the show and for being willing to talk about your journey with Joy, but also with friendship

[00:03:45] SC Perot: absolutely my pleasure. I think it’s really obvious to anyone who knows me that my favorite subject is joy, but a very close second is friendship. So, this is extra fun for me.

[00:03:55] Nina: I need you to do two things before we dive into the friendship pieces, which is to explain the premise of your book. And then After you explain it, although I do know who Harry Styles is. I think some of my listeners will know who he is, but not really understand who he is in the context of how long after One Direction he went on in his own. A little background on Harry Styles too.

[00:04:17] SC Perot: What a dream. the dream is When people ask me to talk about Harry Styles. Most of the time it’s people are like, yeah, yeah, we get it okay, enough. So first question, premise of the book. The book is called Styles of Joy. See what I did there with the title.

[00:04:29] Nina: It’s genius.

[00:04:30] SC Perot: I like to say it’s two books in one. So on the one hand, it is a loose narrative arc that tells the true story of my personal experience, post devastating divorce, post pandemic, post career pivot, feeling flat on my face. having this entire season of rebuilding after this nuclear loss that resulted from so much identity shifting and change and loss and how I became a 0 to 100 fan of Harry Styles.

So, Sad Girl is going on long walks in Austin, Texas around the Town Lake Trail and types good energy in on Spotify. I was feeling pretty low. Harry’s third album, Harry’s House, came out two days after I told my ex husband that I wanted a divorce. Spotify fed me a playlist called Good Energy. And sure enough, Harry’s new album was all over this good energy playlist. I hit shuffle and I would hit the walking trail more times than I can count because it was really boosting my mood and bringing me so much joy in a challenging season.

[00:05:34] SC Perot: Now, fast forward. I ended up going to 17 Harry Styles concerts in five countries, traveling with strangers and friends that I met along the way. what resulted was critically thinking about joy for the first time. What is joy? Who has it? Who doesn’t? Well, spoiler alert, fangirls have it. Fangirls are like the most joyful people I know. especially post pandemic, it was so fascinating for me to look at this communal and collective joy. You know, all these people coming together to dance and sing safely in all these countries.

I mean, it felt like nothing short of a miracle. So the timing kind of on a global scale versus my personal grief journey, I think is very interesting. along the way, as I’m thinking about joy, I Asked this big question of not only what is joy, but how can we maximize joy in all of our lives?

So the 2nd nature of the book is a 4 part framework that answers or addresses that question. I suggest that we maximize joy in all of our lives. When we cultivate joy in our own personal lives, adopt other’s joy as our own, protect our joy and other people’s joy, and spread joy. So C A P S, that’s the CAPS framework, Cultivate, Adopt, Protect, and Spread. that is how I invite readers to reframe their thinking about joy.

[00:06:55] Nina: It really worked just using Harry Styles as an example, even for me as a reader. I’ve heard songs here and there and I wouldn’t have changed the song on Spotify, if it came on, but I also would not have sought it out, But you really made me intrigued, your joy spilled onto me, which is a huge part of your book.

You definitely made me interested in Harry Styles to the point where someone was like, Would you want to go to a concert? I’d be like, Yes, yes, I do, because I read this book. And it felt joyful even reading the examples of just how he is as a performer and especially the the way the people, all that you guys had in common was that you love this performer and you love the way you feel at a concert. That was enough, but I’m like fast forwarding too much. Let’s talk about who is Harry Styles just for a minute

[00:07:38] SC Perot: if any listeners of this podcast, are not familiar with Harry Styles. Be careful. It’s a slippery slope because I wasn’t either. But all jokes aside, Harry Styles is a former member of the boy band One Direction, which was discovered on the TV show X Factor in the United Kingdom. they formed this boy band. the band broke up. Harry went out on his own. For older listeners, like this is more my demographic. This is Justin Timberlake of NSYNC.

[00:08:06] Nina: That’s like a really great reference. So I’m Gen X Sometimes people call me an elder millennial. I was born in 76 at the end almost 77 and then SC are you a young millennial?

[00:08:16] SC Perot: Think I’m smack dab millennial.

[00:08:18] Nina: Got it. But I am technically Gen X.

It’s just that people 10 years older than me are also Gen X, we have very different cultural references. Those generation things are kind of interesting, but yeah, I love the Justin Timberlake that speaks to me.

[00:08:31] SC Perot: that’s kind of an interesting element of this is I was not a One Direction fan because if you say boy band, I say NSYNC Backstreet Boys 98 Degrees. That’s more my era.

[00:08:41] Nina: Oh, and mine would be new kids on the block actually. There you go.

[00:08:44] SC Perot: I had never really listened to One Direction, all of a sudden, when I’m listening to Harry Styles, I’m like What else is this guy got?

And he had these other albums, his self titled debut album, followed by his second album called Fine Line. And then of course, Harry’s House, which is the album that takes us on this adventure. One thing I would really want to impress upon listeners. you can listen to all Harry Styles music all day, every day, but only when you are at those concerts, or I would suggest on Harry Styles, TikTok, where you really kind of see this fan culture come to life.

I don’t think you would have any way to know about kind of this culture and value set that accompanies these shows, because if 1 word were to be used to describe a Harry Styles fan community culture, it’s kindness. That is the absolute top value. One of his top songs is treat people with kindness. His official merchandise says TPWK, Treat People With Kindness. That’s very much part of this world. he’s kind of the conductor of something much larger than just him. and he speaks to that in his shows. He’s like, I see what you all are doing from up here on stage. And it is such a gift to me. And I know that I only play a small part.

these fans are so tightly knit together. I was a newcomer and they were very open and lovely and welcoming and it was such a bright pink sequin filled feather boa world that was such a stark contrast to kind of the loneliness of divorce and all this. And it’s kind of no surprise to me that I fell in love with this total love bubble of fun and joy and friendship and all the things

[00:10:23] Nina: So where this brings us we talk a lot in my Facebook group at Dear Nina, the group, and I get a lot of anonymous letters People have been listening for a long time, deal with maybe they’re stuck in their life in some way. They’re moved to a new town. It might not even be something like grief, but it could be that or divorce.

Or they’ve been in the same town for 20 some years and they’re just like, It just doesn’t feel like a fit anymore. They’re not going to move because this is where their family and their job is. But they realize actually thinking about your book, the things that bring them joy, people have been mocking, or they, they just don’t feel like they can be themselves for any number of reasons.

And they’re looking to start fresh in a way, and they just feel so stuck and they don’t know what to do. I have never suggested, in all the things I’ve suggested, and I’ve suggested a lot of things over the years, fandom as a place to plug in. I do talk about things that you enjoy, obviously signing up for something you want to learn, or things you like to do for fun.

And fun and joy are different, you talk about that in the book too, but this idea of fandom saving you, in a way, in a time when you were really low, I do want to read something to you, just to stay on the divorce piece for a second, because I do hear a lot from people who are divorced and I think this will resonate with a lot of people.

[00:11:33] SC Perot: I just want to read this early in the book. It’s like page 40. You wrote, I was not only mourning the loss of my best friend, my spouse, my other half, my confidant, my husband, my roommate, my should have been life mate. I was mourning the loss of an entire family whom I chose to unabashedly love as much as my own and whom I still love from afar. Parents, siblings, nieces, somehow one day you’re family and the next you’re not. I was also wrapping my head around the loss of a whole group of friends, some of whom were like family. I love deeply, easily, and often. Once you’re on my list of people I care about, it’s hard for you to lose your spot. But now so many people were in a brand new off limits subcategory in my mind labeled, Send good vibes, not text messages. think one of the gnarliest elements of divorce. Is it, it’s so case by case, no two people have the same experience, but I would say so often it’s misunderstood as something that happens to two people. It’s not. The nuclear loss that results and kind of this, ripple effect in your life.

You know, I write elsewhere in the book that divorce is like, your whole life is dumped into a sieve or a strainer and shaken around and some things fall out and some things stay, but everything is shuffled around in some way. I mean, the phrase for it is a dumpster fire. Like, even if it’s amicable, even if I don’t know, It is such intense change. This grief was so overwhelming, you know, I’m a really sensitive person. I don’t mean I get my feelings hurt. I just mean, I’m a deep feeler. I love people deeply easily. And often, I think, was the line in the book. And all of a sudden, you know, I lost a bonus mom, a bonus dad, a bonus sister, all these people who I had loved and still love, you know, from afar, like I said, I just think this, this fork in the road it doesn’t even feel like a fork in the road.

It feels like you’re just in the wilderness. and speaking of friendship, I wouldn’t have survived this without friends that had also gotten divorced. you speak a whole new language. You process things differently. You look at the world differently. And one thing I can tell you after you go through something that gutting, is you really don’t have time for useless nonsense. the byproduct of that is a richness of friendship that I wouldn’t trade for the world.

[00:13:46] Nina: That makes it even more fascinating that the place you turned might seem surface and, you know, light to someone who doesn’t really get it, but ended up being a much deeper thing. So how did you end up at that first concert? There’s a piece of friendship that happens at these concert that I am dying for my listeners to hear about.

[00:14:04] SC Perot: I think it’s important for listeners to hear that I did not set out to do this. Yes, it certainly snowballed. Someone invited me to a first show. someone who was kind of an acquaintance. She was friends with my younger cousin. She said, I really love Harry Styles and I really want to buy a ticket for like 350 and most of my friends wouldn’t want to spend that but I really want to be in front of the stage in the pit and I thought You know, I actually think I really like Harry Styles.

I mean, I was so in the depths of grief, I don’t think I could have even told you how much of his music I was listening to. while we’re kind of on this subject, it’s also worth mentioning that because I had never listened to his music before, it was entirely new. So, there were no memories associated, and you were talking about listeners who might be feeling stuck.

There’s something to be said for this was all uncharted territory for me. I previously would have told you I was a fan of live music, but the furthest I had ever traveled for a concert was 45 minutes or an hour. I was not tuned into this world, I never would have identified as a fangirl.

I was a former corporate attorney. I mean, I was a straight laced gal. And when my friend Porter invited me, I was like, a mosh pit,

[00:15:18] Nina: Yeah, that would be unappealing to me.

[00:15:20] SC Perot: would be very unappealing to me. But I thought, okay, I’ll step outside of my comfort zone, especially being in a crowd post pandemic. I was very out of practice and I joke in the book, I probably would have described any concert with general admission as a mosh pit.

but I thought, you know what? Why not? And I think when you’re stuck or in a season and craving some kind of change up, why not is electric.

[00:15:45] Nina: Oh, that’s amazing. And I mean, We cannot skip over, you said it, but I need people to really take this in. An acquaintance invited you. Not a close friend, not even, someone you work with every day. An acquaintance.

And you just were like, okay, and that’s huge to say yes, not only to the activity, but to the person it was like a double. Yes, because both of those could have stopped you could have been like, well, sure, may I might like the concert I’ve been listening to this music a lot, but I’d rather go with a really close friend Your acquaintance had also it was very brave to ask you everybody did such a good job on this. Gold stars around

[00:16:17] SC Perot: Right, I think one of the best pieces of advice I got post divorce is it was actually one of my dad’s business partners, and so this is a man in his, late 50s, early 60s, and he looked at me and he said, so have you made new friends yet? And I’m thinking I have a huge community. I’d lived in Austin for several years. A lot of my very best friends still live there and I felt so supported and held throughout this really tough chapter. and he said, trust me, I think you should make new friends. He said I’m not saying ditch your old ones, just see what it feels like to spend time with some kind of new blood. It was one of the best pieces of advice I got because you know what I was not talking about with these new people was divorce. not that they didn’t know it wasn’t that, that just wasn’t a really big part of my identity in these new relationships. So when this acquaintance asked me, I’m thinking, Wow, you know what I’m not going to have to talk about all night is how I’m doing in a really deep and meaningful way. We can just have some fun and hit pause on this grief. That’s actually how my therapist described these concerts. I was like, okay, listen I think I really like Harry Styles.

Should we be concerned? Is this like, I don’t know I’m like, this is all foreign territory. And she said, you know You’re just hitting pause on your grief. These concerts are a grief break. She said, if it’s working, it’s not harming you or anyone else. I don’t see the problem.

[00:17:40] Nina: It’s inspiring what I really want to get across is how you then started to make friends within the fandom world because it’s one thing to Attend a thing. There’s the why not and say yes, and don’t worry so much about who you’re going with and whether they’re like a close friend or a new friend. then what? you start going to these concerts. How does a person go from being an attendee to really being a participant and speaking to strangers and then getting to know them?

[00:18:07] SC Perot: that has always been my MO. I mean, I’ve always loved people. There’s the question of why not, but I also love the question. Then what? if I am feeling social anxiety, or I am feeling self conscious about something, that’s the question I always ask myself. Okay, well, what if they think I’m weird for talking to them? And I’m like, then what?

[00:18:28] Nina: That’s so good.

[00:18:29] SC Perot: Okay, people you’re never gonna see again thought you, a nameless stranger at a concert, were a little awkward? Okay.

[00:18:34] Nina: You’ll survive.

[00:18:35] SC Perot: every time I kind of play out my fears and then ask myself, then what? Okay, someone judges you. Okay, then what? for me, that has really helped with kind of an openness with strangers. People respond beautifully to simple kindness and I think we just forget that. it could be as simple as I have to tell you, your hand painted Harry Styles concert jacket is Absolutely amazing. how did you get that idea?

that’s it. Or handing out a friendship bracelet. I know plenty of people listening probably went to the Eras tour. And it starts these beautiful conversations. two of my good friends that I met at these shows, we met because I offered to take their photo. It was a mother daughter duo. They were standing outside the key of forum in Los Angeles.

And I said, hey, do you want me to take your picture? Because clearly they were looking around for someone. They said, yeah, and we’ll return the favor. They said, thanks y’all. And my friend I was with said, y’all, where are you from? Well now we’re off to the races. They’re from New Orleans. I’m from Texas. Oh, how many concerts have you been to? are you going to the Palm Springs concert next week? Me too. Can I get your number in case we have any questions about recommendations in Palm Springs? I said absolutely. that’s how I’m friends with Kate and Margaret, the mother-daughter duo based in New Orleans. I talk to ’em almost every day.

[00:19:50] Nina: Pause on that moment for a second. I think because, yeah, like you’re a comfortable and outgoing person, you might not even realize how big some of these small things are. you could have, when they said any recommendations in Palm Springs, let’s exchange numbers. And I remember in the book, you kind of thinking You barely know anything about Palm Springs, right?

You were like, what am I going to tell them? And you could have just had a fun conversation about taking good pictures of each other and been done with it. But you were really open and said, sure, take my number and let me take your number. I’m trying to get that across to people to the why not? Yes, I love that.

[00:20:22] SC Perot: Absolutely. what was so much fun for me was to meet girls at these shows who were there by themselves.

[00:20:27] Nina: That’s so interesting too.

[00:20:28] SC Perot: I was at a show in Coventry, England. I was talking to this girl who had a huge, ridiculous cutouts face of Harry and we were laughing and taking pictures with it she said Oh, are you here by yourself?

I said, no, I’m, I’m here with two of my friends and she goes, okay, well, we are all here by ourselves. And it was a group of maybe 12 women from all over the world. And she’s like, you’re welcome to hang out with us if you want. I’m thinking this is unbelievable. This is so emotionally generous. And I think that’s why I loved this environment so much is it just felt so so welcoming and open. I saw a girl standing by herself and was able to say, Oh, were you here by yourself? they’re all here by themselves. I’m watching them, they’re doing a conga line. They’re exchanging Instagram handles. You know, it just, it’s how I think the world should be. It was such a beautiful environment.

[00:21:17] Nina: That term, emotionally generous, is going to stay with me. It’s, a really good term and something we need more of. And I think the opposite is what I see a lot, which is emotional stinginess. And like being afraid to, show that you’re interested and willing and maybe even needing of a friend. We could do so much better with that generosity over stinginess. I think people really worry about their time. It’s the thing that would have kept maybe the average person from giving their number out because it’s like oh now is this person gonna You know call me and be like texting me all the time and I can barely text my own friends. I’m really loving this why not. You wedge more people in. And you’re not gonna be texting non stop with Every single person.

I don’t know. We find a way to fit people in if you have an emotional Generosity to you.

[00:22:04] SC Perot: tell you a funny story. Harry Styles and I have the same birthday February 1st, and he scheduled a show in Palm Springs to close out the whole tour was on his birthday and my birthday. So I had just met Kate and Margaret. I walk into this venue. I’m buying a bottle of water.

And who’s next to me in line a couple days later, but Kate, who’s 13, I was like, Hey girl, what’s up? And her mom was marking their territory down in the general admission area. And I was like, let’s go get your mom. I’ll walk you back. she had this big exhale that she saw this familiar face in this crowd of tens of thousands of people. that feels like such an honor to be kind of like a safe person for someone. So I walked her back to her mom, Margaret, and Margaret threw her arms around me in a bear hug, like we were the oldest of friends. And it was so simple and it was so nice.

that night I was with a friend, we were ravenous , we got all the way back to the hotel. We couldn’t find any food. We called another Uber and we said, can you take us to the closest business establishment that is open? And it was midnight or something. And I rang in my birthday in an In N Out burger with a hundred percent Harry Styles fans with feather boas. And who was there, but Kate and Margaret, my new two pals I met outside the Kia Forum. the thing about it is there’s a difference between uncomplicated and superficial. I Think friendships that are formed over a shared interest or a hobby, they’re not superficial. They’re just uncomplicated. And that’s such a beautiful thing because what I was not talking about was the intensity of my life upheaval and everything I was going through and we just got to become friends based on loving the same music and it was a beautiful, a beautiful thing.

[00:23:40] Nina: I’m going to read another line to you from your own book. It’s later in the book. You’ve been to a lot of concerts, you’ve already met Margot, but this is what you say at the end of having, you know, kind of reflecting on having met Margot.

I’m going to have you tell the story, but The conclusion is, and that’s how I met the most important character in the remainder of this story, who has become a very dear friend. The first person to send me snail mail on my birthday the following year. A card full of inside jokes that still lives on my refrigerator. The person who made so much of this adventure happen. I underline, underline, underline, and like, I’m just thinking, you just never know when you’re going to meet people, so you have to tell the people how you met her.

[00:24:18] SC Perot: Yes. So about a year after the separation, I was setting off to go to four shows in nine days over in the UK two in Coventry England, and two in Edinburgh.

And outside of Coventry Night One, I’m in a Tesco grocery store bathroom line in industrial England, and I’m with two of my friends that came over with me, who I knew prior to these adventures. there’s this character in line in front of us, and she’s got a black hoodie on, sunglasses, nose ring, covered in tats.

AirPods are in, and she’s standing up against the wall, let’s just say she’s giving don’t talk to me energy, I’m respectful of people’s vibes and boundaries, I’m, I’m not looking to, I joke in the book, I’m like Barbara Walters, everybody. she took out an AirPod and she said, do I hear American accents? And we’re thinking, okay, that’s not always a great thing when you’re

[00:25:09] Nina: know, it’s like, you know,

[00:25:11] SC Perot: yes. she takes off her hoodie. She goes. Hey, what’s up? I’m Margo I’m from Los Angeles. And I see her bleach blonde mullet and I see The hair and sunglasses combination something clicked in my brain and I said, wait a second.

I know you you’re the marathon runner. I was at Harry Styles concert in Palm Springs when he read out your poster that said, wish me luck. I’m running a marathon on Sunday and we all cheered for you. I said, Oh, my God, girl. I love your TikToks. And she’s like, yeah, that was me. fast forward, that’s how I met Margot, and we went to nine shows together in England, Scotland, France, and Italy. We stayed in a hostel together. We’ve had, the most fun adventures. that’s how we met, was in a bathroom line. And she’s become one of my really dear friends.

[00:25:57] Nina: It gives me the chills because there’s just so much loneliness out there and, for a variety of reasons, many of them good reasons. But one of the reasons is this unwillingness to push yourself. And even the littlest ways. You could have recognized her and still not said anything.

I keep finding these little moments in your story that just could have gone a different way. You easily could have been like, Oh yeah, that was that girl in the Palm Springs or, you know, Harry read out her poster and then just. Left it at that, just like you could have not given your number or I guess you could have given the number to Kate and Margaret, but you could have made it less encouraging of them to use your number.

You made these really open minded, like we said, emotionally generous choices and it made all the difference in your life and you kept going to more concerts because people are inviting you. It’s amazing.

[00:26:41] SC Perot: It completely changed my life. Margot taking out her airpod and asking, do I hear American accents, completely changed my life because she said, oh, are you all coming tomorrow night to the Coventry show? And we said, yeah, we’re coming to Coventry night too. She said, are you going to Edinburgh? And we said, yeah.

And she goes, Oh, okay. Can I get your number? I’m always looking for people to go to these shows with. She said, I travel by myself to see Harry. I went to Australia by myself She’s used to doing it solo, used to shooting it with people in the crowd, kind of having fun.

all of a sudden we became travel buddies. And she said, I also have extra tickets to his four Wembley concerts. And I bought them at cost. You can just buy it from me. And I’m like jackpot. We were sitting in Edinburgh and I was thinking I’m going home the next day

And she said, have you looked at the cost of Paris tickets? And I’m thinking. I’m leaving tomorrow. And she said, they’re the cheapest I’ve seen anywhere on tour. She’s like, we should probably go. And I was like, Hmm, we should probably go. Why not? I had this moment going to the Paris show. two of her friends happen to be in Paris and came with us as well. so I’m traveling with strangers. I load into a van with strangers and all of a sudden I’m looking out the window. I’m like, I think I just checked the bingo card of everything my parents told me not to do, but I had never felt more calm because I, Had already spent a lot of time with her already I have a very good instinct and great judgment and I’m not a reckless person.

And so these were calculated smart decisions. I wasn’t doing anything dangerous, but certainly unprecedented.

[00:28:14] Nina: unprecedented is a good word because we are starting to run out of time. I want to make sure we get to any pieces of your story that you think it’s important for my specific audience, this audience that is, always looking for ways to expand their social lives. is there anything essential we haven’t gotten to?

[00:28:34] SC Perot: two things. First, I want to double click on what you said about fandom being an amazing way to make friends. One thing I find that is so moving is when people tell me their stories about how they met and made their best friends through being a One Direction fan, through being a Harry Styles fan.

I was at one of the Wembley shows with two girls who had been online friends for 10 years. They live in different countries. They met on Twitter in the early one direction days and have stayed in touch and they made a pack that they would meet up eventually to meet in person. And I was there when they met for the 1st in person and they were like, we’ve been friends for 10 years because of Twitter.

And I’m thinking that’s not something I’ve ever experienced, but I think that’s so extraordinary. I was at a Niall Horan concert at Madison Square Garden because, you know, if Harry’s not on tour, I’m going to go see another One Direction member, kind of stay close to my favorite fandom. And these three girls in front of me, we started talking. One of them really teared up and started crying.

And she said, they all lived in Atlanta and they traveled to New York together. She said, when I moved to Atlanta, I hardly had any sense of community. And I took a risk and I went to a One Direction fan meetup. And she said that’s where I met all of my best friends in Atlanta.

She said, being a One Direction fan has completely changed my life. I love fangirls. Like, I love this culture of inclusivity and being so welcoming. it’s come as you are. Any age, race, gender, it doesn’t matter. And it’s just the most beautiful way for people to get connected. I had never critically thought about that prior, Which leads us to this conversation about joy, and just a little bit on the judgment piece.

I think so often we judge the what when we don’t know the why. Oh, it’s so weird. SC lost her mind. And now she’s obsessed with Harry Styles. I’m like. Let me explain to you how this reopened the world to me after grief. let me explain how I turned to happy music for the very first time. It was happy music as medicine. it was really boosting my mood when I needed it. so often entertainment is written off as superficial or unimportant, but in fact, it’s bringing joy to millions of people around the world, and I suggest that we should protect that at all costs because if it’s not harming anyone, we need to celebrate it. Now I’m a fangirl for fans. I’m not really a sports person, but now I love sports in the abstract. I’m like, yes. Oh, good. Sports are doing their thing. It’s just really helping plenty of people and I love that. Find a sense of community and something that brings them joy.

[00:31:06] Nina: It’s so true about sports, by the way, because I’m also not a sports person, but I live with some sports people. And my dad was just a massive sports fan. Having grown up with my dad, I was always able to appreciate other people’s fandom because he was a Chicago sports fan, like right out of a Saturday Night Live skit, some of my listeners will know, like my dad kind of looked like Mike Ditka of the Chicago Bears. And there was this skit, we had Bears, like that was my dad and he went to everything. And those were outdoor games in the winter in Chicago and just bundled up head to toe. As he got sick, my dad had Parkinson’s and he really suffered for 20 years before he died, I thank God for sports. I mean, he still was able to watch, couldn’t go to all the games, friends would come over, they’d watch games.

My God, without it, can’t even imagine. A grateful for other people’s joy on whatever it is. love to see people get into stuff right. sometimes when people are really down and lonely, . I’ve got to find something new and it may not bring you friends literally right away. Like not, everyone’s going to go make a ton of friends from this new thing, but it can bring you joy, which might just open you up

[00:32:07] SC Perot: absolutely, One anecdote you’ll appreciate. I moved to Nashville in that week, I reconnected with a friend I hadn’t seen since college. and I think it was about 12 years. We hadn’t seen each other. She said, I’ve never been to this online book club meet up in person, this beach reads and bubbly meet but there’s a Nashville event tonight at a brewery.

And obviously you don’t have time to read the book, but do you want to just come, cause you’re new to town. And I thought yeah. why not? We all kind of went around. Everyone’s a little nervous. No one really knew each other.

And I said, Hi, I’m SC. I moved here this week and I had never even heard of the book until a few hours ago. So I’ve read zero pages. I look forward to hearing what you all have to say about it because If you guys liked it, maybe I’ll pick it up, but I’m here because I don’t know a lot of people in Nashville and I’m new to town. So that’s my truth.

[00:32:53] Nina: Had other people not met before? Like were other people there alone too?

[00:32:56] SC Perot: Yes. And I keep in touch with people I met at that weird little book club thing. Never been since, but doesn’t matter. think it’s important to remember, all friends begin as strangers. And when you live your life with that lens, It’s really fun and exciting, you can be friends with people of all ages. my friend Kate, who’s in high school in New Orleans, I’m on a thread with her and her mom, and we chat about Harry Styles, she’s always giving me updates on what Harry’s up to,

[00:33:24] Nina: Yeah. Like she can actually keep up at a different level. That’s good.

[00:33:27] SC Perot: absolutely. she’s my ear to the ground for all things,

[00:33:30] Nina: Can we end with you reading some of my favorite chapter, it’s like a narrative poem is what I would call it. So yeah, you go ahead and read as much as you’re comfortable with and I think it will be really touching to listeners.

[00:33:41] SC Perot: So chapter 20 appears in part two, which is all about adopting other’s joy. It’s kind of an anti jealousy theme in the book. I really started reflecting on my friends who got me through such a rough time, and that’s where this came from, because we’ve spent so much of this episode talking about the fun friends I made along the way, but this really is a tribute to my core, the chosen family in my life that I’m so grateful for.

So chapter 20, Those Friends. This book is a love letter to Joy, but it’s also a love letter to those friends whose couches feel like your couch, who live on the other side of a route so familiar to you, you could drive it blindfolded, whose fridges and pantries are always fair game, whose addresses you have memorized, who randomly buy your dog seasonal bandanas. Who do your dishes and whose dishes you do, who are banned from doing your dishes after the spaghetti incident of 2018, who show up with unsolicited Chipotle and a Sharpie to help you move apartments who have Polaroids of your best shared memories on their fridge?

Who answer the phone without a hello? Jumping right into conversation. Who tread alongside you, when you feel like you’re alone in the deep end? Who will shoot you straight when you ask if a purse is ugly. Who carry your anger so you have less to hold. Who bring you onion rings and an eye roll with your salad because they know the difference between what you ordered and what you actually wanted.

Who know there are times you need to be left alone so they just drop food off at the door and send a text. Whose dreams you pray for. Whose parents greet you with outstretched arms and the words, Welcome home. Who sometimes know you better than you know yourself. Who you’ve stared at the stars with in silence, whose toddlers you clap for as they attempt their first steps, who know when you need your hand held, who completely call you on your, who let you melt down without judgment, who finish your sentences and whose sentences you finish.

Who you tell the same old stories as if it’s for the first time. Who send you niche videos that make you cry laughing because they perfectly peg your humor. Whose garage codes you know. Whose spare keys clink on your keychain. Whose babies you hold in your arms and heart. Who can communicate 1, 000 words with a single moment of eye contact. Whose spouses take care of you like you’re family, who immediately look at you when your favorite song comes on, who send you pictures of the mundane and their dogs and their nieces, and that double rainbow? Who will carry your secrets to the grave?

Who ask if you just need them to listen? Who sit with you cross-legged on the floor of their living room for a proper coffee table? Catchup, whose cats you feed when they’re out of town? Who can say, you look like crap, without offending you. Who ask you, how’s your heart? Who send you snail mail for no reason.

Who say, like that one time, and you say, exactly, without further explanation. Who will put you on the list of approved people to pick up their kids at school. Who say things like, how’s my girl? Who know your favorite flowers, whose favorite flowers you know. Who are mad at your boss they’ve never met. Who you pick back up with as if no time has passed, who sends you good new music, who sends you even better old music, who make you feel good about yourself and about the world, who adopt your joy as theirs, and whose joy you adopt as yours. You know? Those friends.

[00:36:48] Nina: Oh, I loved it so much and it’s such a beautiful piece of the book and your overall message though, that all friends, even those friends were strangers at some .Time you don’t get those friends until you start at point A. you can’t have one without the other. So anyway, SC, thank you so much for being here. The book is Styles of Joy. It’s brand new. I want to tell you how I close my show. Which is, I say it every single week, when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around. So thank you for being here.

[00:37:15] SC Perot: Thank you so much Nina, this was such a joy.

[00:37:18] Nina: All right listeners. Bye.