00:00:00] Steph: you can’t just decide on a Tuesday that by Friday you are gonna have friends that look different than you.

That’s not how friendship works, but you do have to open yourself up, , to be in places and spaces that might be different or. Being in the same places and spaces, just talking to new people. Welcome to another episode of dear Nina conversations about friendship.

[00:00:29] Nina: I’m your host, Nina Baden. I’m a writer and a friendship enthusiast. Today. We’re talking about the power of friendship with people who are different from you and also the challenges.

There have been tons of articles on the topic lately because of a new study about cross class friendships, just one kind of difference possible in a friendship, . I of course could not tackle this topic alone. So I invited the fabulous friendship pair and podcast duo from her next chapter, Stephanie Pierce and Julie Burton.

Hi ladies. Thanks for being here.

[00:00:58] Steph: Hi, Nina.

[00:00:59] Julie: Nina.

We’re so happy to be

here.

[00:01:01] Nina: I’d like to tell the dear Nina listeners a bit more about you before we dive into the topic, starting with Stephanie, because that’s how you’re listed on your podcast. Stephanie and Julie, and I love that cover art so much.

[00:01:14] Steph: Aaron

O’Leary

did that work for

[00:01:17] Julie: And then, Kim send, so it was a dynamic

duo combo. So Aaron did the, the sketches

[00:01:24] Steph: And then Kim kind of made it into a logo for us. what’s funny about the picture is, so everyone will have to run out and see it. But when my husband saw it, he was like, huh, it’s Michelle Obama and Jennifer Aniston. And I was like, no, No, that’s me and Jules. Thank you very much.

[00:01:45] Julie: Take it, James Pierce.

[00:01:47] Nina: Oh, my gosh. That is so funny. Your doppelganger for Michelle Obama, Jennifer Anderson, I

love it. Okay. Well, I’m gonna talk about you guys for a second and then we’ll all talk together. Stephanie is a mom wife connector and coach after a 24 year career in engineering, which is so cool.

And HR, Stephanie reinvented her work to bring her passion for building communities with her HR expertise. This led to the creation of two businesses, Steph pierce.com and Kate JP consulting you to go to Steph Pierce to hear. And Julia’s also a mom, wife and connector and a writer. She co-founded the twin cities writing studio in 2015 with me.

And she published a book called the self-care solution, a modern mother’s guide to health and wellbeing. A few years later, she founded modern. Well, the first. Women centered co-working and wellness space in Minneapolis. Julie Wrightson speaks about motherhood, self care and entrepreneurship.

Okay. Julie and staff, one of you should spend 30 seconds telling the audience, what your podcast is about. Cause I actually didn’t say that. What is her next chapter about with all that great cover?

[00:02:52] Steph: Go ahead, Jules.

[00:02:53] Julie: , her next chapter is a podcast about reinvention. , So S step. And I even , in the way that we met, , we both were embarking on sort of new journeys in our life, in our, , individual lives. , and we didn’t know that, , , we would combine forces , , and start this podcast.

, It’s geared for people who are in a state of transition. , , maybe you want to leave corporate America and go out and do something on your own. Maybe you’ve been a stay at home mom and want to start something, start a business. , , we’ve interviewed some incredible people and it’s just very inspirational because Reinvention is hard. ,

[00:03:37] Steph: that’s right.

[00:03:38] Nina: Okay. I’m gonna share with you guys a quote that I thought was really interesting and it’s from 1954 and, this is our topic.

It’s a quote from a sociologist named Gordon port. He had presented this concept , called the contact hypothesis. So in 1954, he said, well, these, sorry, these aren’t his exact words. So it’s not really a quote, but it’s about his concept of the contact hypothesis, which found that interactions between people from different groups, promoted, greater understanding and better relations between them.

And of course, this is not surprising to me. And yet. Our human nature does tend to influence us to flock towards people who are just like us. And that could be not just our backgrounds, but our interests, politics, you know, and hobbies and things like that. I bet that was so interesting that it was from 1954. There’s such common sense that if you are friends with people who are not just like you, you’re going to understand all kinds of people better. Cuz we. Make assumptions about people in this case would be for the better, , I wanna hear about your friendship and just your thoughts in general, on this topic of the power of being friends with people who are not exactly like you.

[00:04:46] Steph: So, , I’m gonna geek out for just one. And talk a little bit about, the work that I do with teams. So I spend a lot of time with leadership teams and, , , their design is not to necessarily be friends. Although sometimes that can be a nice, happy, healthy outcome, but one of the things that is an emphasis now, In particular is , this whole concept of diverse teams.

And there’s been a lot of research done by some very, you know, smart, amazing organizations that say diverse teams are more innovative, they’re more creative. They, will lead to better financial results. And all of that is true. But , when I think of that quote, I think about. You don’t get the benefits of any magic of any team by just shoving them in a room together and saying go right?

Because when people are very different than us, different communication style, different backgrounds, , different education, it takes a minute to get used to that and understand how to navigate that. And I think that is, , no different in friendships. No two people are alike, right.

And so even if I meet someone and they are an African American female from Chicago, , born in 1972, just like me, the chance is that that then means that we are the same and how we think probably not. And so I like to think of it as we are all a little bit different, , but our similarities or things that we have in common or things that we, , want to have more of in our life, we are drawn to.

So Julie and I were drawn to each other because of a common interest, . And a friend hooked us up right. Said, Hey, you two are both looking for ways to build communities of women to help them move further, faster. You’re doing it in different ways, but the two of you should get together and chat.

And , that was the thing we had in common. We didn’t have 50,000 other things in common, but for this person, sweet, , adorable darling, Julie Harper, this was the thing. And what ended up happening as is often the case, when you meet people that are like fulfill your soul. You find out that you have so much more in common.

And I think that being, having a heart that’s open to that is important. So I have a set of friends. There’s five of us and we all have 11 year old girls that are in the same school district. Are those girls friends? Nope. , not the way we are, but that is the thing . That connects us, but we are from different places.

A couple of them are from Minneapolis, the rest of us. Aren’t, I’m African American. They’re not, , I’m 50. They’re not, , but we have this one thing that allows us to have this amazing relationship and I wish more people could see that, there’s so much power. You only need to have one thing and then all this other magic happens.

[00:07:54] Nina: . Right. We don’t need to check every box. Julie and I were introduced

also by somebody else. that we were both Jewish was not really the reason, although I’m sure it was like one of the things on the list.

, neither of us are suffering for not having enough Jewish friends in our lives. You know, it’s not like either of us really needed that. It’s that we both have four kids and we’re both writers, but we’re 10 years apart. And the fact that we are both writers and certain kinds of writers, , and the four kids like having four is its own. Commonality. It didn’t even matter that the ages were different. But that interest, that certain kind of writing that we were both trying to wedge into our motherhood lives was a real commonality. And, and that was enough.

Like, you’re saying that you build around that and I’d say that you might be really different from someone, but if you have a certain special passion in common, it really transcends all the differences because Julie was my only. Writer friend like that.

And we were writing on the internet. It was just like a real specific time and place of internet writing. And gosh, , we really helped each other through that. And then we built the writing studio. It’s so funny how you two met and then you built the podcast and which was just an addition to the other stuff you were already talking about.

Well, a natural outcome of it really

[00:09:04] Julie: I love that Nina and it’s true. , I trace back our relationship to , even starting modern. Well, because you came into my life as yes, 10 years younger than me. But you knew a lot of things that I didn’t , you knew Twitter, I didn’t know, Twitter.

You taught me Twitter. And at that time for a writer, you had to be on Twitter. Right. And then us, you know, collaborating in the writing studio, which led to modern well and led to, , me meeting stuff. what I find is that.

Like you were saying earlier, Nina, like how people, a lot of times just sort of stick with what they know. , , you find your bubble. and then you’re like, okay, cool, cool.

I’m good. I have friends, I have people , but for me at modern, well, what I’ve learned is . I thought, I knew, everybody in the twin cities I’ve lived here. My whole life. I have four kids. , , my web expands out.

Meanwhile, I get here and I’m. I know nobody, ? Who are these amazing human beings and , every day I’m like, wow. Wow. And wow. And so I think, , my mind , has just exploded , in terms of possibilities , of meeting people who are, drawn here because they want community.

That’s the draw. And I think that, like stuff said, I wish more people. Would do that because, my whole outlook on things and my understanding and the diversity piece too, I mean, and S stuff.

And I have talked about this a lot. , when we first started modern while it was very much kind of a, a white woman’s place. . , we talked about that and it , really bothered me. , and stuff would remind me like, Hey, we’re in Minnesota. , it is what it is, but, okay.

There are black people in Minnesota, there are Hispanic people in Minnesota. , , and so I think for me, a lot of work has, , been focused on , how to create diversity. Like you were saying stuff diversity on teams, this was diversity in my place of business and even for myself.

And I think that the key to that, , and the most important thing is, to start with establishing relationships with people, people that are different than you.

[00:11:24] Nina: I get this question a lot, along the lines of what you were going on, which is , but how , there is a hunger out there for people to not have their friends to be exactly like them. , so that quote was from 1954.

I don’t know if people were into it then, but it seems like that message has come across by now, , you do now want everyone in your life to be just like you. And yet there’s this barrier of, , you live in the neighborhood, you live in, you go to the school, you go to , sometimes things self-segregate along, all kinds of things.

That article I was talking to guys about at the beginning, this big study on class and how. That’s a huge barrier for friendship. , and it really affects children’s,, upward mobility, the things that they’re exposed to and it affects people’s understanding of the needs people have

and if you only see one kind. Living situation. You just don’t even understand the what’s out there or what’s possible on both ends. So anyway, people wanna know how, and , there’s not one answer to that, but what you’re saying about modern well, really speaks to me cuz I see it too. Being there sometimes like just joining a place that does have different kinds of people and I could see how you were uncomfortable at first because yeah.

Then it doesn’t have that. , it’s just more of the same and you have really changed the environment there.

[00:12:38] Steph: I think part of the reason why Julie was able to do that is , it’s self-awareness and a mindset. This is where friendship and reinvention come together in a happy little marriage, because when you’re at a place of transformation in your life, typically your heart is open.

Your mind is open to new things and new potential. You’re putting yourself in different environments. So I had been in one company for 24 years, had a lot of friends who had a lot of different things in common, . From all over the globe. But the one thing we had in common was general mills. Like we knew general mills and I knew corporate America.

When I got out of corporate America, I felt a little bit like, Ooh, I don’t know anything. What are these people in these tiny companies talking about? Why don’t you have 400 HR people? So I had to learn and my mind was open and I met all of these people in the twin cities who weren’t in the big company.

World and had all these amazing experiences that I had never experienced. And so that to me is about having a mindset. And the self-awareness to kind of understand that there are things to learn, but let me speak specifically to your question, because I do know that a whole bunch of people decided in the last several years that they needed to have more friends that look different than them. And If I break it down even further, everyone decided they needed a black friend. while there are many, many people of color African Americans in particular in the twin cities, most of us do not want folks just rolling up on us at the Jerry’s saying, Hey, I’d like to be your friend, cuz I don’t have any black friends and I’m trying to be more diverse. To that. I say, I’m happy that that’s what you wanna work on, but I don’t need to work on that with you. I don’t know you. And so to the how part, I really ask people and I did this with Jules. Why do you want modern? Well, to be diverse, why get really clear with what it is that you’re trying to do and know that that is your journey, but that may not be mine. I would prefer people be friends with me because they think I’m a cool person. We have something in common. Versus, I just wanna be able to say that I’ve got a black friend or I wanna understand more about your culture. You understanding more about my culture is really just you understanding more about me because I can only speak to my experiences.

I cannot speak to the experiences of a, of an entire race or gender. And so I think that’s the first thing that I, I ask people to think about is remember that your journey to enlightenment through knowing people who are different than you may not be everybody else’s journey and you can’t get frustrated when the first three people that you wanna be friends with.

Aren’t interested in being friends with you. Because again, if you go back to that self-awareness piece and asking yourself why you’re doing it, it should be about. A lifelong journey, not a summer project because somebody told you that was the right thing to do. And that is one of the things about Julie that I love is that Julie was like, huh. And it was clear to me that it was a lifelong journey. Now, was she frustrated that change wasn’t happening to the pace that she wanted to you betcha. She’s a business person, . , but she was patient. and she stayed focused on building relationships that were meaningful for her. And I think that is the, how you can’t just decide on a Tuesday that by Friday you are gonna have friends that look different than you.

That’s not how friendship works, but you do have to open yourself up, , to be in places and spaces that might be different or. Being in the same places and spaces, just talking to new people. Cuz most of us can probably think of times when we were in an environment with people who were different than us.

We just chose to talk to the parents of our kids’ friends cuz that’s what we do every single time. So I know I have been in situations where I could have met a whole bunch of different people, but I sat and talked to the same four people just because I’m old and I didn’t feel like being bothered with new.

[00:16:53] Nina: New conversations, a lot of work I love what you’re saying about this open heart and a certain mindset. We’re not always in that mindset. Take away the whole piece about people like you, people not like you just meeting new people in general is tiring and it.

Always something we’re in the mood to do because it’s different, small talk is quite different than just sidling up next to your buddy and just downloading like your stressful week. Sometimes you just need to do that.

[00:17:20] Steph: especially if people are gonna be asking you questions, like, what’s it like to be black?

[00:17:25] Nina: Oh gosh. Good Lord. Please say that nobody

[00:17:28] Steph: like, oh my God, it’s only 10 o’clock in the morning. Sometimes my answer is like, what’s it like to be white? I don’t know. Like you tell me, , you go first, Julie and I on the, how, that’s not how we started.

. We did not start talking about race, religion, background. We started talking. , how could we work together to build a great, strong community of women that are learning and growing from each other? That’s where we started. It was gender based. It was not anything

else.

[00:18:00] Nina: And business bay, you are entrepreneurs.

[00:18:01] Julie: remember the moment , so our mutual friend, Julie Harper, , co-hosted an event with Steph at Stephanie’s house. This was a year or so before I opened modern wall. And I remember standing in Stephanie’s living room, I didn’t know Stephanie from anything didn’t know one single person who was going. , I knew Julie, but I knew she was hosting. So she’d be busy if it wasn’t like I could stand in a corner and talk to Julie Harper, You know that feeling right? You walk into a space, you know, nobody, right. Except for the person who’s hosting. Part of it too, is just getting used to that uncomfortable feeling of putting yourself out there.

, it’s terrifying, I mean, we’re grown ass women, but , it is still you walk into a space and you don’t have your buddy , I suppose I could have asked someone if they wanted to come with me, but I kinda wanted to be by myself because I wanted to, , Experience it , and talk to who I wanted to talk to and learn, what I needed to learn.

And you know, sometimes , when you go with a friend, then you’re just,

[00:19:01] Steph: totally.

[00:19:02] Nina: we do episodes and things about just making new friends and it’s harder advice to take. But my advice is to go somewhere alone because yes, when you go with somebody, of course, you’re gonna talk to your friend, like, and then, and then you’re unapproachable by the way.

So you and your friend are, you know, ping around going to get cheese and crackers. you’re not purposely unapproachable, but again, like human nature is what it is. And why would one person come up to two people? It’s much easier for one person to go up to one person. That’s just how it.

[00:19:26] Julie: Right.

[00:19:27] Steph: We should all go places with somebody we don’t like, cuz then you’re like,

I do not wanna talk to you. So now I, for real gotta find somebody otherwise I’m gonna have to, to.

[00:19:36] Nina: There you go. That’s a

[00:19:37] Julie: So,

[00:19:38] Nina: I’m gonna add to the arsenal.

[00:19:40] Julie: yeah. Go with someone you

don’t like, , in front of me. , so I think, , like stuff said, when I started this company and this journey, my heart was very open and I remember , Stephanie got up and. Introduced herself and started talking about community and about women and about just finding your power.

I remember just thinking to myself, I wanna be her friend, . because of , , her heart, her messaging, . , I knew that Stephanie is the kind of person who I would want to have.

a close relationship with, because of how she sees the world and how she sees the power of community. And when I was forming my advisory board, I asked Stephanie to be on it. She turned me down

[00:20:32] Steph: I had

so much going on. I had too many children and a big job. It was just, I didn’t have four, did not have

four, ,

[00:20:40] Julie: Fast forward, she did join my advisory board. Thank God.

,

, I think to Stephanie’s point, it’s really about putting yourself in places and spaces where you’re gonna meet people who are not, , , whatever, whether it’s race, religion, you know, background.

I mean, I think now, especially after COVID, , I think we were kind of isolated and divided before. I feel like we’re almost more now , , we are super, super polarized right now.

, You used to be able to, like, , if you were a Democrat or a Republican, you could be in, you could go out to and, talk argue now.

[00:21:24] Nina: No, I

get a lot of letters, a lot of letters

about that.

[00:21:27] Julie: . I think friendships is where it all starts. It’s about relationships.

[00:21:32] Steph: And , it was relationships and business, right? We were both starting a new business life for ourselves and we were both interested in generating revenue. It was , a part of our conversation. , but , Julie waited years, legit years for me to join the modern well advisory board.

, we didn’t meet each other and then start talking to each other every day. And then a podcast was born. I mean, this was a lot of time and attention . About a very specific topic and it wasn’t until we started talking more about things that we started entertaining, all different types of topics, our kids, , being black in America or , in Minnesota, , understanding the Jewish experience,

It could have been very easy for me to just sort of exist in the world. That is the black experience. , and did I know that Julie was Jewish when we met? Sure. Didn’t , was it something that I was gonna try to figure out? Sure. Was not, but as she and I started to talk. What it means , to have family members and friends be the subject of a hate crime,

, the feeling of a church being bombed a synagogue or a temple being bombed. She and I were able to really get into conversations about how our families, how we were experiencing those things, but that wasn’t the Genesis of the relationship. It wasn. Let me understand her lived experiences.

The Genesis of the relationship was, community based and business. What we got to and what we’re at right now is this place and space where I feel like I am constantly learning and understanding, , through Julie. What her family has experienced, , the work that she does within her community and how, in many instances that parallels the work that I’m doing in mind.

Julie might say, Hey, Laura Elle, and I are talking about doing this work in the Jewish community, or , she’ll challenge me with things like, Hey, you do diversity training. Do you ever talk about. Antisemitism. And I’m like, Nope, I do not . And, the challenge wasn’t Hey, I know you’re not doing it.

It was, let’s make sure that when we’re talking about some of these things that we’re bringing up, kind of all the ways that hate can show up. And I love that. But that is not the essence of our relationship. The essence of our relationship is moms and kids and husbands and business vacations.

[00:24:14] Julie: Together

[00:24:15] Steph: we travel, but that took time, right?

Neither one of us walked into it knowing. What I knew is that there was another person in this community that was interested, actively interested in building community for women. And not only was she interested, , I met Julian. , September, November modern well was up.

I was like, girl, I’m still trying to figure out if I’m leaving general mills and you have already opened your

business. Who are you woman? So I was in awe. I was in awe that Her dreams were like manifesting. And I was still sitting in a corner trying to figure out what I was gonna do.

That is what I think people need to think about is all of your friendships should be with people that you like. , as we get older, we have less. , there’s just not a lot of time. You can’t have all the people. I try to do whatever I can to cherish my cherish relationships.

, you get to a certain point in your life. You’re like, I can’t love everybody the same. I just don’t have enough time. And I don’t want to. And so I get to choose who I wanna spend time with. And I choose Julie because we have a good time and I feel like I’m growing and. and I know that she loves me and I know that she loves my family and I think that’s really what most of us want in this time, right.

Is somebody who loves us unconditionally and knows our stuff, the stuff that smells sweet and the stuff that’s a little, little stinky, and they love us anyway. I know that Julie has my back. I know that she has my family’s. Really, I think that’s all that matters.

[00:25:54] Julie: Okay, now you now you.

[00:25:57] Steph: She cries.

[00:25:58] Nina: She cries all day. I like never cry and Julie makes me feel not cuz of anything. She says like I’m slightly dead inside. , we joke in our writing classes. , it takes a lot to get me to cry.

If I have a tear, you know that something super emotional is happen

but that was genuinely

sweet.

[00:26:16] Steph: I will call Julie.

and be like, Julie, call me back. I need to talk to you about what happened this morning. That’s when you know, you have a good friend that when you’re like, Julie.

[00:26:26] Julie: you gotta call me right now.

[00:26:27] Nina: what you’re talking about is. Friendship , what I hope people take away from this episode, cause we are getting at our perfect time limit.

And a lot of times I do these friendship goals of the week and I haven’t written one out for this episode. Actually, I haven’t done one in a while and people miss them. They’re like, where’s our friendship goal of the week. I think. , it’s not just one sentence. It’s this idea that. You are absolutely right that people have in their mind, like, oh, I need a black friend.

Oh, I need a gay friend. Oh, I need this kind of friend. And that’s tokenism that is not, , deep friendship. , nobody wants to. Build a friendship on an agenda like that is not enjoyable for anybody

no one wants to be your teacher and no one should be like a student at all times either. You wanna be actual friends and of a true deep friendship, will probably start with just some commonality, like a passion and interest the business and make sense that you started out sort of as colleagues, naturally over time, you grew to understand each other more about all parts of your lives, race, and religion being two of the things, but lots of other things, , unfortunately everyone out there writing me letters who are like, I really wanna have friends who are different. That’s a good thing. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but , it has to be more natural. And maybe the goal of the week is just examining your life and thinking about the places you go and the things you do.

If you’re truly looking to meet other kinds of people, you have to do other kinds of things. It doesn’t mean it’s gonna develop into a friendship, but that is certainly the start. . It is trying new things going somewhere alone, showing up to a place that you have never been before. Maybe joining a thing like modern, well, but even modern. Well’s a great example. You do not make friends just sitting there in your laptop.

It’s the coming to the discussion groups here and there. It’s going to events. It’s not sitting there doing your work. I mean, you say hi to people and it’s very friendly and warm and welcoming, but the friendship making is. Over time. And another thing you guys said, you didn’t use these words, but what you are saying is , you plant these little seeds, your relationship started with some seeds being planted.

It didn’t really blossom until a couple of years later, really like the level it’s at now

[00:28:27] Julie: mm.

[00:28:28] Nina: years

and ours, too, Jules,

we’ll walk randomly, there’s that many people that I can be like, do you have 20 minutes? Or Julie will call me from my driveway with her dog and be like, we’re in your drive.

And I’ll just come out for 15 minutes. We live near each other, which helps, but I’m like, I can’t say no to Scooby, so

I’m not a dog person,

yeah, I am a nice person. So are there any last things you two wanna say before we say goodbye?

[00:28:58] Julie: First of all, I’m gonna just do a plug for our stories behind the menu , , the modern roll stories behind the menu, we have one coming September 8th and then another one, December 8th is a fantastic way . For people to come out and sit down next to somebody that they don’t know and eat great food and have great discussion.

And this is the work that we’re trying to do is, bridge the cultural divide, , in our city, , through food. , , The other thing that I think is really important is that when you do have a friend different from you, you see the world through their eyes, , like stuff was saying earlier, , if stuff is out in the community and here’s something antisemitic She’s gonna think about me, . As a person, as a human being, if I’m out in the world and I hear something racist, . I’m gonna think about Stephanie. And I’m gonna think about her husband and her children who I love. , that to me is. Part of what makes this so powerful, having friends that are different from you

[00:30:02] Nina: And Stephanie.

[00:30:03] Steph: The only thing I would simply say is, , for those people who are looking to expand their networks, like genuinely want to expand, I would challenge you to think about the network that you already have, because I bet you, you are one degree away from an expanded network or the people who are in your network, particularly those of you who have kids.

Those kids have parents. , and there are probably, , folks that your kids connect with that are very different than you. And that’s not that far away. So you actually don’t have to necessarily step into something completely new. You could just take one step out of your immediate inner circle, go to your, friend’s friends.

And there could be a ton of diversity. You just have to broaden. What your definition of diversity is. , , that’s what I did. , I didn’t take a harsh step, , completely out of my world. I just took a little bit of a dive into some of my friends, , into their friendships, joining the modern well advisory board.

I’ve met a bunch of people who I did not know before, who come from a variety of backgrounds and do a variety of things. But I do think that it makes us all more aware, like Julie said, when you have a name or a face that you can put to some of the things that are happening in our world today, it makes it so much more real.

It shouldn’t necessarily have to be that way, but that’s human nature, I think. So that’s what I would just say. , you don’t have to go far sometimes to expand your network.

[00:31:43] Nina: That’s such good advice, so true. , it’s hard to start absolutely fresh. and maybe you don’t need to. All right, ladies, I’m gonna wrap us up. , so Julie and Stephanie, thank you very, very much for your time. I really appreciate you both busy , having this conversation with me today. And, , I tell everybody at the end of every episode, when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around.

And I see two happy friends right here. . So thanks again, guys. come back in a couple weeks for your new episode of dear Nina.

[00:32:09] Julie: Thank

[00:32:09] Nina: you,

[00:32:10] Steph: Nina.

[00:32:11] Julie: Thank you.