Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina, conversations about friendship. I’m your host, Nina Baden. I’ve been writing about friendship since 2014. I lead writing groups in Minneapolis and like today’s guest author Laura Tremaine. I’m a big champion of authors and books and a major friendship enthusiast.
Laura and I will be talking about a huge better friendship goal recommendation from Laura’s new book, the Life Console . When I first started my podcast a few years ago, I offered a better friendship goal of the week segment at the end of every episode.
Somehow I got out of that habit, though I do them occasionally in my Facebook group. Dear Nina, the group, so today’s episode, is one giant better friendship goal. And just a few more things about Laura laura’s a great podcaster that I’ve been following for a long time and writer.
She grew up in Oklahoma and moved to Los Angeles sight unseen when she was 22. She worked in film and television production for many years at M T V, vh1 Fox and Paramount Pictures before pursuing writing full-time. Laura writes about friendship, anxiety, motherhood, and marriage, and more. Her first book, share Your Stuff.
I’ll Go First is all about connection and I use some of the prompts from her book in my writing classes in the past couple years. And her newest book, the Life Console, 10 Friends Every Woman Needs is of course what brings her to Dear Nina. Today we are going to dork it up about friendship.
I cannot wait. . Hi Laura. Welcome.
Laura: Thank you for having me here. I am so excited to talk to you about friendship because I do feel like you are the friendship.
Nina: We’re laughing. I’m gonna tell listeners, because when Laura first logged on to our recording, she said something about me being the friendship expert. I said, Nope, nope, nope. And all my listeners know anyone who’s listened to this before and hopefully there’s some new listeners too. . Like Laura, we have a lot in common.
We just love the topic of friendship we’re not therapists. That’s no secret. And so we, both shy away from that word. as she was about to say, you are the friendship, I was giving her the, I
Laura: I was
Nina: say it, Laura
Laura: . You are a friendship person.
Nina: I say, it’s such a good word, enthusiast.
Laura: yes.
Nina: in your book, you said, thinking of friendship as a to-do item has helped you with your friendships and you point out that people seem to accept that marriage is work, parenting is work. , but friendship is supposed to be effortless and probably TV and.
Books and things have made us feel that way. But tell us a bit about how you came to put friendship on your to-do list. It was one of my favorite suggestions in your book. What was going on before you realized it was something you needed to really think about as a to-do item and how it helped after.
Laura: Okay, so this became one of my core friendship philosophies. I have five core friendship philosophies in the book, and this is one of the most important ones that Friendship is a to-do. And I came to this because I. Had some friendship missteps in the last, I guess, let’s say five years or maybe less than that.
It’s one of the reasons that I was hesitant to write this book is because I am not a perfect friend. I had had friendship mess-ups that were my fault, and so I felt like, who was I to write a book on friendship? But one of the key ways that I kept messing up was I was not, Prioritizing relat. I sort of just lived on connection.
I felt like if we had a deep connection, like we’re friends, I’m good. I don’t need to check in on you. Maybe I don’t always text you back. I don’t really keep up with what you’re posting on social or. Whatever, like I just sort of skated along on the fact that we had a great connection or chemistry or history even, and it just kept coming up from different friends, different friend groups, totally different relationships where people.
Would kindly sort of call me out and be like, Hey, I texted you three weeks ago. , no one is that busy. Or a friend was going through something and I knew they were going through something and I didn’t really check in on them, or, you know, just the, the barest minimum of checking in on them and it happened.
Kind of three times in a row enough for me to be like, okay, this isn’t just one misstep, this is me. I obviously have a gap in this part of my relationships because I’m a working mom. I have a lot of anxiety tied to communication. Like I get a lot of communication in my life, a ton of texts because my kids are in sports and blah, blah, blah.
Just a busy life. And so I shut. And I stop communicating and sometimes for weeks at a time, I just do my family life and my work. , in my spirit, I don’t feel disconnected from my friends, but they feel disconnected from me. And also not even disconnected, but also like hurt.
So I was like, I have to fix this part of. Because kind of taking on a, a popular mantra of , you know, my phone is not the boss of me. Just because we’re now available 24 7 with these little devices doesn’t mean you always have to be available to everyone on your phone. And I understand the self care of that and the mental health care of that.
And also it was hurting my friendships to go literally weeks . You know, and just like ghost them or go m i a, not check in on them, not say hi back, not respond to their question. We’re talking some basic relational skills that I was sort of just hiding behind my anxiety or hiding behind, you know, our past and, and not really feeling like, okay, this is something I really have to work on.
And so this was before I wrote the book. I started making. As part of my daily to-do list that I have on a notebook, I have personal stuff, like I have a column for personal stuff, family life stuff. I have a work to-do list and I added in a connection to-do list and it literally says things like text people back.
Nina: No, I love these specific examples. No, seriously. That’s hell.
Laura: , there’s a, app that I really love, a voice message app that I use with a bunch of my dear friends called Voxer. And so it will say on there you know, Vox a friend, , to check in or just to let them hear with your voice that you, you could do this with voice memo. Whatever you use, use your voice to , say hi.
You miss them, you love them, whatever. I have to put this on a to-do list.
Nina: Laura, I’m the queen of the voice memo, to the point where sometimes I had to control myself and I find myself. My friends how to use voice memos cuz I’m like, you’re gonna have to learn how to do this. People, I find WhatsApp to be great because a lot of people are, have WhatsApp. They may only use it when they go out of the country or something, but they do have it.
And I like it because on Apple, regular voice memos, if it gets interrupted, like if I’m listening to someone’s voice memo and is over 30 seconds, let’s say, and I get a phone call, you kind of have to start from the beginning where, what’s apple? Stay. , same when you’re leaving one now, the one you have.
It’s funny. I don’t know anyone who uses that, and that’s maybe one step too far. , everyone has to buy in to the app.
Laura: Right. Well, I feel like I have a lot of friends that use Boxer, so it’s easy. I mean, it’s kind of, it’s specific friends. I’ve also used Marco Polo.
I don’t love that one as much cuz I don’t always wanna be on video. there’s a difference between a text check-in and a check-in with your voice, I have to remind myself to do that.
I know that that won’t be for everyone, and I think that a lot of people expect that we should just naturally be good friends in this way and check on one another and text people back, and that’s just normal, polite etiquette. But it wasn’t happening for me and it was actually hurt. My friendships.
And so I was the one that needed to fix it honestly, because it was my issue. And just sort of blaming it on, those other factors, , I’m busy, I have anxiety. That’s valid, of course, but you know, it also sort of became an excuse, I guess, and I, that’s not how I wanted my friendships to feel.
Nina: I love your honesty about this because. It really can be hurtful and like most of us have been on both sides of this. We’ve been the person who didn’t receive the a text back. And I think any reasonable person, like you’re saying, we’re all busy with different things. Any reasonable person would not expect an immediate response.
And someone who is expecting an immediate response on something that is not an immediate thing, I think is expecting too much and probably needs to do a little work on that. On expectations. And cuz then, Setting yourself up to be disappointed in people. And I’ve said many times probably sounds insensitive.
If you are constantly disappointed in your friends or people in your family, it might be coming from you, the source, Everybody cannot be rude and disappointing and, and not considerate. That’s just not possible unless you’ve really surrounded yourself with a lot of, you know, rude people. But I like what you’re saying about sort of acknowledging that there.
A reasonable time to respond though, three weeks is too long. There is no exact number. You just know
Laura: You just know, and it works both ways in that I had to look inward when multiple people called me out on it. I couldn’t just be like, oh, well that person’s high maintenance, that she expects me to text her back all the time. And then the pandemic shuffled a lot of things for us because another crutch that I leaned into, Before the pandemic was if I didn’t text someone back, well, I knew I was gonna see them at school carpool.
I knew I was gonna see them at the thing, and so I would answer their question then, or give them a hug, or we would feel connected in that way, even if I hadn’t texted them back or whatever. In the pandemic when all we had was our digital communication. That was one of the times that people were like, Hey, you cannot just fall off the face of the earth like it makes us feel unseen.
You know, it, it’s rude. So I, I had to look inward like you’re saying, , if it’s everyone else’s problem, it might be you.
Nina: Right,
Laura: So I was like, all right, well I don’t, this isn’t what I wanna be known for. , you know how everyone has that friend that They never go out , to the birthday party or to the thing.
And so sometimes you still invite them cuz they’re part of your friend group, but you’re like, she’ll never come. And then sometimes she stops getting invited because eventually, the person that never comes should st start getting invited.
That is the same thing , I didn’t want my reputation to be like, oh, don’t even bother texting Laura.
She’ll never text you back, or, you know, whatever variation of that. If it’s not text like, don’t even try to communicate with Laura. She only communicates on her own terms. that’s not what I want
to be as a friend.
Nina: I actually just love so many things about this story. This is why I said we’re gonna like dork it out. How loving of your friends to actually give you the opportunity to change this small thing, . Especially the way you suggest it in your book and here, just putting it on a to-do list, like the work and connection being separate from work and .
You said something in the book that really resonated if you had to buy a birthday present for someone, for example, that wasn’t really on the connection list because yes, you’re doing it for a friend and it’s like a loving thing to do, but that was more like a task, like a chore, whereas making a point to check out what they’re doing on social media and pressing the like button and writing a comment. Which doesn’t take that long, but it actually is something you have to think to do, and that is something that creates connection and makes a person feel good. The fact that they felt close enough to you. I mean, it really, it’s a testament to the friendships that several different people were able to know that you could handle that.
I mean, Laura, that’s not a small thing. There are many people who would have, those friendships would’ve just ended because the friends wouldn’t have felt secure enough. And the friendship with you that they could even say that to you without you kind of taking it, I’m not saying you were like super excited to hear it, but you, you took it in and you changed.
Laura: Well, I mean, who knows how many friendships have ended because they didn’t say it. just in the normal course of friendships drifting or fading I will never know if part of that was because I check out. I’m sure I feel positive in my track record that it might have been a factor in the past sometimes.
So the fact that I did have, I can think of three specific friends. Who don’t even know each other. I mean, that’s how much I needed to get this message. I felt like the universe was really like, okay, you need to hear this message from all the different sources
We didn’t have to have a big sit-down talk about it. They were like, Hey, it’s sort of bumming me out that you haven’t responded, or one of them. She’d actually done me an enormous favor and had emailed me the results of the favor. You know what I mean? She had sort of emailed me the, the thing she was working on for me, and I hadn’t written her back.
I hadn’t written her back and said, thank you. I think she kind of pinged me. You know, after a week or whatever and was like, I am feeling really vulnerable that you haven’t replied.
It makes me think you hate this thing I made for you.
That’s
the story she was telling herself, and that’s what she wrote in the email, like, The fact that you haven’t replied, I’m, I’m worried you hate it. Of course. I didn’t hate it. It was a huge thing that she had done for me and I hadn’t responded, what in the world was I doing?
, that was the final one. That was the real wake up call, because that was bigger than just not texting someone back. , a huge thing in that moment was not that. Been rude and disrespectful, which I had been. Actually, the bigger thing was that there was a disconnect between my heart and my actions.
My actions were not reflecting what was in my heart. I held this friend so close to me. I was in my heart, very grateful for this favor that she had done, and I would’ve sung her praises to others, but I hadn’t done the most immediate task of writing her. Thanking her profusely, being timely about it.
that was the, the final one, like I said, and it was the biggest light bulb moment I gotta get this under control. This is actually damaging some of my most important relationships.
Nina: . It’s very hard for people to change , and that’s why I love this as the better friendship goal. In this example, for you, it worked to make sure you tax people back. What were some of the other things that you would add to a list? , what else could people add on their connection list?
Laura: So, like I said, check in with my voice. sometimes I send a card, you know, a a little bit about this is knowing your friends’ love languages. I have a lot of long distance friends. I grew up in Oklahoma. I live in Los Angeles now, you know, I have a lot of childhood friends , and college friends and whatever.
They’re all in different parts of the country. The maintenance of long distance relationships is just different than the maintenance of my local mom friends or whatever, you know? I mean, my long distance friends definitely don’t expect a text back, we live across the country, we’re in different time zones.
I don’t even know what their day looks like and vice versa. So connecting with them. It’s really different than people I actually literally share a carpool with the urgency is sort of different. So knowing though from like a love language standpoint or how long it’s been with a long distance friend where you could easily go a couple months and and not talk to them.
If they spring to mind, then I will put on the list go check their social media
Nina: Let’s talk about this one , for a bit. We’re gonna, flesh this one out. I should tell you a lot of my episodes, this one does not fit into this category, are anonymous letters that people write me and then a guest and I will kind of talk about the answer together.
And I have received several different versions. I mushed ’em into one of the, this sort of irritation people feel. You know, someone’s pretty active online and you can see them. Sometimes when you go to like a post, you can see mutual friends activity and,
I have definitely, had that yuck feeling when you’re like, could they throw me a bone
once in a blue moon? Yet when I’m giving advice about. I often say, and I mean it, I really mean it. You have no idea how that person uses social media. Maybe they have an intern who does their social media and it’s not personal. A lot of people don’t understand how an algorithm works and they truly may not see your stuff. So I loved your point, I loved your idea of, that’s why you sometimes might need to put it on the list to go look at it. You’re, you’re not gonna see it probably.
Laura: Right. Maybe you muted everybody in a political season or they did, you know? I mean, you actually have no idea what’s going on with people, and I know because I’m sort of public on the internet. That my algorithm is mostly feeding me other creators less my real life friends because they post less So I have to go seek out their social media feeds to see kind of what’s going on with them, what they’ve been posting. That’s a way to connect also. , I, I encourage people in the book to like every selfie. That’s one of my friendship philosophies, liking and commenting there. But it’s not always like that.
Sometimes it’s like, oh, I actually just wanna see what’s been going on in your life so that when we do talk or if I am gonna text you or call you or something, I am not totally clueless about it. I’ve sort of checked in on you. all of these things are very easy and yet they can get away from us because we are busy and we don’t think about it like this and we’re scrolling our phones and we’re, you know, so I had to just be more intentional about it.
Nina: has that helped? Have you found that it has helped you connect?
Laura: Yes. And I’ve had friends say that they’ve noticed and not the same friends that told me I was bad at it before. I’ve had different friends say that they have noticed in the last couple of years, which proves my earlier point of I was having a reputation of, I had several friends who they knew I probably wasn’t gonna text them back.
They didn’t take it personally because they knew this was kind of what my old rhythms had. So when I started being better about it, it was a pleasant surprise, I guess.
And when they said it that, they had noticed, I was a little embarrassed , but I was also like, okay, well it’s working. I did have one friend take issue with it,
Nina: I was gonna ask you about that and I really appreciate that you admitted that in the book. Tell us the story.
Laura: She actually took issue with that. I had set an alarm on my phone, which is another way you can do this if you don’t use to-do list you can set an alarm on your phone every day, check in with a friend or whatever. There’s so many ways that you can kind of hold yourself accountable in this way.
Well, I had set an alarm on my phone to check on her. I don’t remember exactly what was going on, but it was like, you know, to, to check in with. And one time it went off. While we were together, we were like in person. Well, I showed it to her I thought it was funny or flattering or I don’t know. It didn’t cross my mind that it would actually hurt her feelings.
And she was bummed, she felt like. A chore. She was like, I don’t wanna be on your to-do list. , I don’t want you to have to set a phone alarm to think of me or check in on me. It made her feel like she was high maintenance in a way that she’s actually not. she didn’t like the way it made her feel.
Now she doesn’t have the same friendship issues I do in that. Maybe it is a lot more natural for her. To reach out to people when she thinks of them or she doesn’t need a reminder that they’re going through something or they have a big doctor’s appointment that day, or all of the different things that I try to write down that I’ll put in my calendar or on my to-do list or on a phone alarm to maintain my friendships.
She doesn’t need that. She’s naturally either better at it or more organized in her brain, or I, I don’t know, has less people in her life. I’m unsure. So for her, she was like, I feel like a chore. Yeah. And she was like, I don’t like to feel that way. It makes me feel like that. You don’t just think of me naturally.
Now we did end up having a really nice talk about it and I explained to her what I was doing, that I was trying to get better at this part of friendship and. You know, we sort of came away with an understanding. Basically. I was like, I’m just not gonna tell you anymore. , I won’t check on you at 5:00 PM every single day .
Nina: Right.
Laura: I’ll try to, I’ll try to make it not look like a chore if you, , accept that it’s not, you, that it’s me.
Nina: , it’s a really micro example of how it’s all about perception because what she’s calling a chore for you, you are actually making her a priority, which is such a nicer way of thinking about it. And it is what you were doing. You were making her and anyone who’s on your list a priority To think of it as a chore, just, yeah, it speaks to her own mindset. I get where someone might feel that way, because we do put things on a list that we have to get done and wanna cross off. , so there’s something about that.
But I actually see putting something on a list as a priority, it’s the thing you’re, you’re going to do. .
it means you wanna address this thing and it’s actually a compliment in the friendship arena. I think it’s wonderful to have made it to someone’s list.
Laura: Well, that’s what I thought too when I was sort of coming up with this. And it’s not a gimmick because again, this was years before I wrote the book, so I was already starting to, you know, I was fixing these friendships organically, not for the book’s sake, , by any means at all. But I tried a couple of different ways before I sort of landed on making it part of my to-do list.
I had also made a list, . Of friends, I need to check in with at least weekly friends that I need to check in with monthly, you know, friends that I need to check in with a few times a year. So like long distance friends or you know, people were not in regular relationship, but I really want to, a couple of times a year just sort of touch base with them or whatever.
And I had not scheduled it, but I had sort of done it in concentric circles like that.
And that ended up kind of not. Working for me. I sort of then leaned into this sort of to-do list idea instead, and if it’s just been a few months and I haven’t checked in with a long distance friend or something, if I just think of them, I’ll just put them on the list that is a little bit more organic as opposed to sort of planning it out like every three months I need to check in with Kimmy.
, I’m not doing it like that. But it is a way to think about it. I mean, I also think as we’re talking more about it and as I’ve been thinking about it, this is a personality type. It is whatever your life circumstance is, overwhelm wise. If you have a million kids or a very demanding job or whatever your life looks like, you might need to think about this.
Versus some people, their life looks really different, their relationships look really different, and this isn’t required. So I tried to think of that with this friend of like, this just isn’t what her brain and heart requires.
Nina: you have another, um, aspect of your life. You have a big social media account with a lot of readers and listeners who wanna interact with you. And so you may after a couple hours of spending time on your computer or your phone, feel that you have connected.
And you have connected, but you still may have this real life friend out there who. Had in the past, before you were a little more attentive to, it felt that lack of connection, whereas for you, your cup was maybe full in a different way, But there’s only so many hours in the day.
So I could see how it absolutely is necessary to make sure you are checking in with the people who are gonna show up with chicken soup, not just the people who are going to buy the book, let’s say different people.
Laura: I’m so glad that you brought up that part because this doesn’t apply to everyone who doesn’t work on the internet, but that actually was a part of it, and I don’t even talk about this part very much, but I did have friends who said, even if they’re joking, I hear. What they’re saying. The point of what they’re saying is, I haven’t texted them back, but I’m on social media every day, and they can see that.
And I’m replying to dms because , I screenshot and post my DM conversations really frequently so they can see that I’m replying to strangers and I’m not replying to them. Now, part of that is, it’s my job.
Nina: Yeah. It’s a business.
Laura: But the other part of that is, and I, I try to be candid about this also, sometimes it’s easier to communicate with strangers than it is with friends.
It’s less vulnerable for me to answer my dms than it is to do a heartfelt check in with someone. it added to my anxiety overwhelm a little bit of all the digital communication that I’m getting because a lot of it is from, you know, being on social media all. And so when I close that app, the last thing I wanna do is go to my texts or my emails I’m just like, Ugh, I’m done with this.
It requires too much brain power to respond to people I actually know and love and need. They need a thoughtful response than it does to just quickly answer a question in dms . And so logically I can see one is work, one is relational. But still, if you’re the friend on the other side of that, it’s not logical.
All you see is that I’m clearly holding my phone, so why am I not writing you back? And I get that. I I really do get that.
Nina: And that’s why you changed it. It’s a huge success story and I think it was an important piece of the book, . So before we end, I just wanted to, ask you if there’s anything else about this particular piece of your book, that I haven’t asked you about that I should have or that you would like to tell us.
Laura: , , about this particular. Peace. Not exactly, except that something I already mentioned that’s a little adjacent to this same thing of making friendship a to-do is paying a lot of attention to your friends’ love languages because the way that you’re gonna check in with them or the way that you’re gonna put it, On your list as a to-do might change based on the way that they like to connect or that your friendship dynamic works best as a way to connect.
So we already talked about voice memos or there’s apps or whatever, because for some people, you know, they’re not on social media or it doesn’t matter to them if you text back or not. Some people really love a phone call. , our FaceTime, so you can see each other’s faces, whatever it is. I.
Started to really notice what my friends seemed to sort of light up about which this was all happening at the same time. And it all goes back to noticing and because before I wasn’t noticing, I was just in my own world of not texting people back and definitely not. Paying attention to what they needed in the friendship, because I just wasn’t thinking that deeply about it.
So when I started to notice that, you know, one friend doesn’t really care if I text her back or not, but she loves it when I offer to pick her up for the event. We’re both going to, , she loves quality time.
Nina: I love when a friend picks me up. I hate driving and it is the nicest thing you can do for me is say, I’ll just come grab you. And I’m like, God bless you. I hate driving. I hate parking. All of that.
It’s a huge
Laura: So if I knew that about you as a friend, I would always do that. Cause I love to drive. And so that would be like a perfect way for us to spend an extra 15 minutes together in the car and sort of connect before we get to the thing that we’re going to.
Nina: It feels like high school in a good way. You know, sometimes when things feel like high school, we mean that in a bad way, how often are you in someone’s passenger seat? Like not very often. It’s just the best and they drop you off. I feel like a child. I love
Laura: I love it too. I have another friend who loves to cook for others,
Nina: Oh, that’s a good friend to
Laura: Yeah, that’s a great friend to have by the way. And so sort of receiving her little gifts of food that she’ll drop off on the porch, being open to it instead of just being, oh no, we’re good. You don’t need to, whatever. But being like, you know what?
This is her way of showing love and I get to reap the benefits. So instead of kind of pushing that off or holding that at arm’s length to sort of letting her be her best friend version, all of those things. To me are adjacent to this to-do list item because you are paying attention to what actually works and builds connection in instead of just doing it the way you’ve always known or
Nina: This is such good advice. I love that you use the word noticing. That’s exactly what it is. It’s noticing, and our lives are also crazy. Sometimes you might notice something and you still might not be able to deliver on that thing. you may notice the person always. Prefers to not drive, let’s say, but maybe you also don’t like to drive, so that’s not gonna be the thing that works.
One of my very first episodes, I think it might have been number one, I had my mom on and we answered a question and I titled the episode, my friend Will Only Text. So it was coming from the point of view of someone who, like she will leave her friend to voicemail and then the friend will texts back or she, right, the friend will not answer the phone, will not call, and that’s like a thing, right?
And then who gets to win in that? In that case, whose love language is more important? The one who really does not like to pick up the phone for whatever reason, or the one who really would prefer to talk on the phone. It’s hard. And my mom and I kind of came to the conclusion. It depends, who feels more strongly? there’s no one answer to that. if somebody can let it go and they, let’s say you prefer to talk on the phone, but you’re like, you know what, I have enough people to talk on the phone with. , that’s a gracious way I think, to say this one friend. Text that I, I have other people to talk to.
I guess it is hard not to put our own stuff on other people. Gosh, it is, isn’t
Laura: totally. I mean, that’s the root of all of this for me is that I was trying to put my own stuff on them, and sort of having the attitude that the internet teaches us. By the way. I feel like having the attitude of like, It works for me. My way of the highway I feel like we have in our quest to empower one another or to take self-care into consideration and all of those things that are, are mostly good.
They can also be damaging to our relationships. And nobody talks about that side of self-care because if it is brought up, it’s like, well, too bad. You gotta take care of yourself, put your own oxygen mask on and all of that stuff. And I’m like, okay, but also then you’re gonna end up lone.
Nina: Yes, I love that. But also it’s, so true. , last week’s episode, well, it won’t be last week’s when this airs, but , as I’m sitting here, last week’s episode I did about toxic friendships. And I said at the very beginning, not all friendships that have issues are toxic. Not all people who disappoint you are toxic.
And also, boundaries really have gotten out of control.
Laura: Out of control.
Nina: we just,
sometimes you have to help people. Like sometimes you actually have to be inconvenienced. Somebody isn’t infringing on your boundaries.
They’re like asking you to be a friend and requiring you to be a friend. When you need a friend, people will show up. You cannot always be like putting up boundaries. And it feels controversial to say that, although more people are saying, that’s huge Article and Bustle a week or two ago about that.
And I was like, yes, amen. , I quoted on my, because it’s just too much. it’s outta control.
Laura: Yeah, we have boundaried ourselves into loneliness. That’s what I say in
the book,
Nina: Ooh, that’s, yes. That’s a good
line. .
Laura: What if I had said, , a few years ago, what if I had been like, no, I have boundaries. I don’t text anyone back between the hours of, you know, 7:00 PM and 7:00 AM or whatever. That was hurting my friendships, and it wasn’t actually a boundary that I deeply needed.
It was an arbitrary thing that I felt like texts are not the boss of me. They’re not the boss of me, but my relationships are important to me. And in the year 2023, the way that a lot of people foster friendships is through texts. So I needed to get over myself and pick up the. And text people back. I could have hidden behind a boundaries thing.
and people are doing that that would’ve just ended up hurting me. I was the only one losing friends over it,
Nina: we’re gonna just end on that cause I could talk to you forever and ever. And But I gonna make us say goodbye I do miss doing the better friendship goal the week, , I should probably bring that back, but we have two here , by putting friends on your to-do list.
You are there for putting connection as a daily to-do and. To quote Laura, text your friends back. That’s a great goal for this week. Text your friends back and I’ll give a third one. Be the first to text. Initiate, initiate, which is part of the, to-do connecting, initiate a text.
Laura, please tell us where to find you.
Laura: My favorite place on the internet is Instagram. I am at Laura dot Tremaine. There you can also go to laura tremaine.com for information on both of my books, my podcast, 10 Things to Tell You. It’s all@lauratremaine.com.
Nina: Laura, thank you so, so much for being here, and you even gave me time before the episode. I had all kinds of just business questions and
I just really, appreciate you.
Laura: Well, thank you for having me. This was so fun. I feel like we could have talked forever.. .
Nina: Everybody. I say it every week. I’m not gonna stop saying it cuz I believe it when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around. So come back next week for your next episode. Bye.
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