[00:00:00] Nina: Hi. Welcome to another episode of Dear Nina, conversations about friendship. Every once in a while, I am going to play for you an interview that I feel needs.

More traction. If you’ve heard it before, then maybe share it with a friend. This one is all about the group text. We can do better with these group texts. I know we can. Group texts are fantastic for keeping in touch, for sharing news, for gathering ideas, it’s just a way you can feel closer with a group of friends.

It’s a way you can feel closer with new friends that are just starting to get to know each other, but there are definitely some. Ways group texts can be annoying, and I’ve certainly contributed to that in my life. there are ways that it can be better, I have a bunch of ideas about it. This interview is with an absolutely fantastic author and friendship thinker named Kat Velos. She wrote the book, we Should Get Together. It is. A really beautifully illustrated, beautifully written book about friendship, and I highly recommend it for people who are looking to make more sense of some of the friendships that are working, ones that aren’t working, making new friends, building community.

And we talked all about the topic of group text because she brought it up at some point on Instagram. I had so much to say and I was like, Kat, would you come on my show so we can talk about this? Because I really have a lot of opinions about it. I’m not saying my opinions are right, but I think they’re worth discussing.

She agreed and we had, a really great conversation. This was a year ago. I’ve had a lot of episodes since then, , I’m not gonna replay them all, but this one It needs to get out there. I need more people to improve their group texting.

If I could say my number one tip, which you’ll hear in the episode, is you don’t have to like our heart. And by like, I mean, Use the thumbs up on every post in a group text, because when you do that, everybody in the group is getting every one of those thumbs up and hearts, and so they’re already getting notifications.

Even if they have the buzzing off, they can see it. They’re getting the notifications every time someone says something. Okay. At least that’s new information added. If you’re liking and hurting every single post, , everyone’s getting, , 25 notifications all the time. It’s a lot.

And it takes a really good communication and , it makes us looking at the phone even more. Takes us out of the present moment. You’ll hear me say it again in the episode. That’s how important. It’s, so Enjoy, Kat, enjoy the tips for group texts and I’ll be back next week with a brand new episode.

Welcome to another episode of Dear Nina, conversations about friendship. Today. We’re talking about group texts and how they can help build friendship and community, but also create issues. Some people love them. Some people hate that. Love it or hate it. You’re probably in a group chat once in a while or even very regularly.

So we’re going to tackle The ideal uses for them the less than ideal uses and all the potential etiquette opportunities that could make our group chats more effective and enjoyable. I say opportunities because sometimes etiquette has a bad rap, but when done well, it actually.

Can make communication better now, who is this? We, I speak of, thank goodness. I am joined by a well-known thinker in the world of friendship work, cat fellows, author of we should get together the secret to cultivating better friendships. Cat is quoted in many of their friendship articles. I share in my monthly friendship roundups because she’s a sought after speaker and facilitator who helps people experience authentic connections and develop healthier friendships.

. If you follow me on Instagram at Deere dot Nina DAPI, you’ve seen me posting about cats book and sharing her. And everyone should follow cat at cat velos underscore author, where she also shares fantastic illustrations that go along with her work that she has created herself.

She’s a designer, a writer, a speaker, a thinker, a researcher, and I’m really, really honored to have Kat on the show to share her expertise with us.

[00:04:10] Kat: Welcome cat. Thank you so much for the beautiful, welcome MENA. It’s so good to be with you today.

[00:04:16] Nina: I have so many things I would love to talk to you about because your book is so full of fantastic friendship work, but I’m going to limit us to the topic at hand all about group texts. And I’ve been thinking about group texts as a way that friendship and community happens. Success.

[00:04:33] Kat: Yeah, I’m excited to begin this topic.

[00:04:36] Nina: And you know, if you can’t show up in person, then these texts can function as a bridge between times you can be in person, but that said it also can be a place where communication breaks down.

So my first question for you is when group chats are going well, what would you say are the unspoken rules like that unspoken etiquette that people are following?

[00:04:57] Kat: Yeah. So when things are going well, , a thing that is, I would say an unspoken rule of group text is even though it’s a virtual space in a way, you know, it’s only text communication, it’s a written communication.

It’s still a group setting. And so I think the unspoken rules of group settings apply here. So example being kind and respectful to other people. If you were to disrespect somebody in a group text or insult them, I think it would be just as bad as humiliating them in front of a room of other people.

And so the same, like social norms we have around treating others the way you want to be treated and being respectful. I think. It shouldn’t be an unspoken rule in a group texts as well because other people are watching and listening. And that matters. I think another unspoken rule for group texting or using that same example of being in a, in a real room with multiple people is to respect the vibe.

You know, so if the mood is silly and playful, or if the mood is like deep and serious and reflective, there’s an unspoken rule when we’re in a group conversation or a group space that. You know, you want to respect the vibe. We want to respect the mood and other people’s emotional states. And to take that into consideration with the things that you contribute to the conversation.

[00:06:13] Nina: . Like if we’re talking about somebody had a really bad thing happened, everyone’s saying that, , so sorry. And all that to come in with. Some silly meme is not the time. You have to read up just cause you’re late in the conversation doesn’t mean that you can be not keeping up, it doesn’t mean you have to keep up when the texts arrives. I think that’s another unspoken rule. If you’re a reasonable, you know that your friends are going to fall behind, but they’re going to scroll up for a little bit. Get a sense of yeah.

The mood. I like how you said that. The mood and the vibe. I really like your point about it’s is a group setting. And what would you do if you’re in person? Another thing that is nice to do, not everyone does it. If there are new people in the group. All of a sudden you’re on some sort of committee and now there’s a group text to take a minute for everyone to share their names. And what name goes with? Which phone number? Oh gosh. Yes. Everyone does that though. Cat and by the way, no different than an in-person. Some people don’t take the time to just take a second to explain how everyone knows each other and just introduce, I really it’s a pet peeve.

Mine. Walk into any kind of group setting and some of the people that know each other and some don’t that the person who really knows everyone, doesn’t take just a minute to say, oh yeah, this is this persons. You have to have introductions, I’d say in a group text, you sort of have to do it yourself. So I will often if I’m in any kind of group text situation that is.

Not my regular people say right from the get go, hi, I’m Nina. This is my phone number. And I will ask people for theirs. I’ll say who’s 6 1 2, so that I can put it in my phone. So I’m not talking to a number.

[00:07:51] Kat: I know. Yeah. That’s a really good point. Making introductions, introducing anyone you bring to the group and, uh, not being shy to introduce yourself as well, because yeah, it gets really strange if there’s Four numbers of people that, you know, and it says their name.

And then there’s four anonymous, just numbers. And you’re like, who are these people? And that also really affects, I think how much people are willing to open up in a conversation, both in person and in a group text. It’s like, if you don’t know these people and there’s been no acknowledgement of the fact that you need to be introduced, that’s going to affect how much you communicate with

[00:08:22] Nina: each other.

Four months later, somebody will be like, wait, who was 9, 5, 2, but you still haven’t put peoples, like we said this, we said this four months ago, put it in your phone., I would say. Tip for people to keep well, again, back to like the unspoken rule of what makes these kinds of chat successful is I would advise everybody mute their group chats.

[00:08:44] Nina: And now I guess I’m speaking from an iPhone. Do you have an iPhone now? Oh, so I’m glad you don’t suppose we could

[00:08:51] Kat: both say I’ve gone back and forth between iPhone and Android multiple times. And I’m currently using an Android. Can you

[00:08:58] Nina: mute a group conversation? I

[00:09:00] Kat: can on. I have a Google pixel. And I don’t know that this is universally available on Android.

You’re saying it is available to you on

[00:09:09] Nina: iPhone. Yeah. Yes. Well, , you’re going to still see the little number on your notifications. You’re going to see like, if you, if you have your phone put away and then you pick it up, you’re going to say, oh wow. I missed 20. I mean, you’ll see the number, but it will, won’t have buzzed vibrated.

It won’t have interrupted you in any way, except visually if you have it out. So it’s kind of

[00:09:28] Kat: nicely. I definitely do that. I mean, I tend to keep my phone on silent almost all the time anyways, because I can’t handle the constant pinging, but yeah, I would say muted as long as you know that you’re going to remember to go back and check it.

And, you know, you’re going to see the notification that anyways. So you’re going to, it’s going to float to the top of your texts. So like yeah. Do that, uh, mute it. And also another person I’ve talked to about this topic has said that Sue particularly prefers to do group texts on something other than the built-in SMS message.

App, like she’d rather use signal or WhatsApp or KakaoTalk or something like that, because there’s generally more features related to meeting a group tax, leaving a group tax, like adding, like there’s just a little bit more control. And so for her, um, that’s a much more preferable one to just using like the built-in.

Yeah.

, hear you on that. I like WhatsApp a lot personally, for a lot of reasons. It’s a much easier to do voice memos on WhatsApp and I like voice memos, but I’m big on those too. Oh, love them. The thing about another using something else besides what’s on the phone is it requires buy in from everybody.

[00:10:35] Nina: So everyone now has to have this other app that they’re willing to check, but if you can get everyone to agree to that works for a while. During the lockdown period, I had a group of friends where we were doing Marco polo, so

[00:10:49] Kat: everybody’s got to download it.

[00:10:51] Nina: exactly. So, and then we, then it kind of fell off.

Got over it, but it was nice for awhile. One of the things I want to say about the unspoken rules that. Keep group chats going well, is this idea that we sort of agree though, those in the chat that we are using this to keep in touch and to say something helpful, funny, like you said, , if there’s a certain vibe, it cannot replace friendship, I do think it has made a difference with some of my friends to make us feel closer because everyone’s so busy and then it keeps you in touch as long as you don’t forget that it is.

Not a replacement for being in person. I mean, if you live in town, if you live out of town and it is hot, it is.

[00:11:32] Kat: Yeah, all of these things, you know, texting, whether it’s a group text or even one-on-one, they’re a supplement to maintaining the friendship. And one thing that I often encourage people to do, if they want to make their friendships stronger.

I just wrote about this on my blog. The other day is to make sure that your friendships don’t only live in one communication channel. So not only in texting, not only in, you know, letters, maybe not only in DMS on social media, whatever it might be. Make sure that your friendship inhabits more than one space, including the physical space, if you can, because it just gives your friendship a lot more strength and it’s woven into your life in a much more solid way.

[00:12:08] Nina: That’s great advice. I love that. So when group chats go off the rails, I saw you bring up this topic recently on Instagram. And it was a really nice conversation under there. When those chats sort of lose steam or something goes wrong, there’s people are offended or annoyed. I mean, there’s all kinds of things off the rails can mean any number of things, but what are you seeing from in your own life or hearing from your readers?

What is it they’re complaining about? Why do people say I hate group chats?

[00:12:37] Kat: So it’s the overwhelmed that they can introduce. So in the conversation, one of the conversations that popped up from that Instagram post was that the fact that when somebody goes in and does an emoji reaction on everybody’s comment, like liking every single comment and they do that 25 times, that means every single person in that group text is going to get 25 notifications.

[00:12:57] Nina: Do you remember who brought up that complaint? It was you.

[00:13:01] Kat: No, I didn’t want like throw you under the bus, but I was like, I agree, Nina,

[00:13:06] Nina: I’m glad you brought it up. Cause I was going to bring that up. Well, that goes back to what you said about thinking about the group setting if you were at a party and it was somebody’s birthday.

You would not walk up to every single person that party and be like, watch me wish this person happy birthday. Watch me wish this person happy birthday, or watch me laugh at this. Joke, you just wouldn’t do that.

That would be a strange thing to do to drag 10 people with you everywhere you go. So they could watch you tell the other person that what they said was funny or something that consider it. It doesn’t take into account , even if they’re muted. So someone’s going to pick up their phone and see the number 40, because it’s all thumbs up half the time.

Yeah. All they had to do was write one text in the group. I’m all caught up. Now, you guys are hilarious. So sorry I fell behind or you don’t, you don’t know what needs to apologize, but I think sometimes people go through and do those emojis just to say, oh wait, I saw this, I saw this, I saw this.

I saw that. You can just write that one time. Loved it. You guys are so fun.

[00:14:03] Kat: Yeah, , it’s really weird because there’s a part of it that comes from positive intent, which is the person wanting to give validation in the form of this emoji reaction to the other person, not perhaps realizing that they’re also informing every single other person with a notification about that.

And also. I love your example of the party and like dragging everybody around. Um, it’s so invasive, but the thing that’s also, I think, badly designed about this is that the platform, whether it’s WhatsApp or social media or whatever it is, they all want us to spend as much time as possible in the platform.

And I think it’s great to spend a lot of time in chat with your friends, but I think it’s a bad design that it requires every single person to get a notification on. Uh, an emoji reaction rather than say only the person to whom they are receiving the reaction should get the notification and maybe a notification isn’t even necessary.

It’s enough for the visual to be there when you look at the text leader. So that’s be nice. That would be really nice. And I think that would be a better as a user experiences. That’s my design opinion on that.

[00:15:07] Nina: Someone should listen to you and invest in that you went on that same note on this idea of everyone having to watch each other sort of perform niceties.

And I agree with you. The intention is always good. The intention is not only for the person receiving the thumbs up. The intention is also to sort of show your friends like I’m here. I’m part of this I’m listening. I’m in several group chats. All kinds of reasons. And I don’t love when they’re used for events.

So if you have an event coming up and you put it in the group chat, the reason I don’t like that is that every single person with that good intention of mine that we’re talking about. Says why they can or can’t come. Oh, I’m so sorry. I can’t make it. I have this tonight. My kid has soccer.

I have this, I have that. And maybe that should have been an email because in an email, I think people know not to reply all. I can’t come. My kid has soccer, but in text, no one who’s going to take the extra step to then just text the one person. It for some reason, an email, like as an email, you don’t have to take an extra step.

You just press the one arrow. The multiple arrows. I’m just thinking as I’m talking, but in a text, it really is an extra step to open up a new thing to just the person who sent the invitation. And so now I have to watch 12 people explaining why they can’t come to, I don’t know why I’m being so curmudgeony about it, but it gets done.

[00:16:24] Kat: It relates to the thing you said of like there’s common issues. There’s things that go off the rails. And some of it is the fact that like simply due to the way. It’s structured. It’s likely that other people are gonna feel spammed with too many texts or local in this case, low quality texts to you. This is a low quality text for you to hear the reason why someone else can’t attend the event that’s of like low meaning to you.

And also the lack of control that you have over whether or not you receive these messages, , It’s rife with opportunities to be frustrated. And these are, these are perfect examples of that as well. another one that I thought of when you were saying, like, when everyone’s replying back and saying why they can’t come if you invite, eight people over group texts to come to your dinner or whatever it might be.

And the first four people are all knows, it can. Starts to make it seem like a, this is going to be a failure and it can perhaps invoke some kind of anxiety for the person who extended the invitation to be like, oh gosh, what’s going to happen with the other four people. , am I loser? , is everybody down on me?

What’s going on? There’s this public newness of the decline that I think can make it a little bit harder. And then exert more pressure on the remaining people to be like, what’s your answer going to be? And none of that would be there if it was just individually.

[00:17:43] Nina: Yes. An indigenous member, like getting an invitation in the mail and you didn’t necessarily even know who was invited and whether they were coming for certain, you wouldn’t know if they were coming.

Anything else from Sasha when you put it on Instagram, that comes to mind that people complained about there were some strong feelings in that post. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

[00:18:00] Kat: one complaint was the fact that they can be never ending. There’s no built-in end date or time. They just keep going until they fade away.

And the fact that. You know, sometimes people shared news and a group texts. It’s actually more suited to a one-on-one phone call or even a group conference call where you can, in real time with your voices have a conversation. And if somebody shares something that’s really significant, either like big, big news, that’s great or big, big news.

That’s bad. Putting that in. Group text can kind of almost like cheap in the depth of the sharing. And so acknowledging that not everything is actually meant to be a, in a group text for, be in a text at all, choose your method of communication, appropriate to the depth of what you’re sharing.

Perhaps some other people, say it’s too easy to lurk or not to participate, particularly in a planning situation. Whether it’s the group party thing, like you’re describing another one that I think of as well. And this sort of relates to texting overall is if you need to schedule something, so you brought up the scheduling example and the time is of the essence, right?

So I know when I say like, Hey, let’s, let’s get together. You know, how about this day or this day at these times, that doesn’t mean I’m holding those open in my calendar forever until. The necessary reply. It’s important to reply promptly. I think when things are being scheduled, especially if people are penciling things into their calendar, because something else might come up and eat that time.

And if you take four or five days to reply, you can’t necessarily assume that the time someone offered is still available and then you gotta start all over again. So I think with scheduling, whether it’s in a group text or one-on-one text, like people should keep in mind, those have a higher urgency for.

An accurate reply versus just cutting up and making jokes and sharing memes and just being like, what are you guys doing for lunch today or whatever,

[00:19:50] Nina: right. Like business has to get dealt with sometimes,

This all is a very natural segue to the next thing I wanted to talk about.

In terms of group texting etiquette. And let’s say you do want to get off the group chat. I mean, there are times, probably not if it’s your regular group of friends, but if it was a group that started because you were on a committee or something, and now it’s just still going and people started to get to know each other, maybe some friendships were formed.

I do a lot of episodes. And I know you do a lot of writing and talking about making friends. I think what we’re talking about here is keeping friends to me, those are the two topics, making friends and keeping friends. This is in the keeping friends category. However, if a group chat started because of some activity, and now you have made a couple of friends from it, but maybe you’re somebody in that group who actually is kind of, you’re good with where you are with your friendships.

You don’t really want to be in this chat until the end of time. How’d you get out of that group chat. I think that’s a really hard without insulting everybody in it.

[00:20:45] Kat: first off, if the device you’re using allows you to leave a group chat, so the device and platform and an app you’re using, once you leave the group, congratulations, because they don’t all let you do that in front of them.

You’re just stuck in forever. And all you can do is like mute it and hope that that’s enough. , and think about this the way you might. Exit, if you needed to leave other kinds of group settings. , let’s go back to the party example from earlier. You don’t need to make a big deal about it and , feel like you need every single person to get your farewell message, , it’s okay to just make. One statement that’s loud enough, probably for most people to hear. And the people that are in the kitchen chatting didn’t hear you. So , for me, I might say if I was in a group text and it was just going on and on and on, and I was like, I need to get out of here.

. I either don’t have the attention for this, or I need to focus on something else. There’s just too much. It’s overwhelming. I might just say like, Hey, y’all this has been really, really fun, but I need to corral my focus this week or this month, or right now. And my phone keeps blowing up with all your awesomeness and I’m actually overwhelmed with awesomeness and I need to focus on some other things right now.

So I’m going to bow out of this group text for the time being, but it’s been fun. Reach out any time, see you later. And

[00:21:58] Nina: that’s.

[00:22:00] Kat: That’s perfectly reasonable. People need to shift their attention and focus at different times. And we all understand the feeling of needing to, step back, focus, regroup, just leave.

, we also live in a culture that, makes it seem like things are only successful if they last forever and nothing should ever, ever, ever end. I disagree with that. And so yeah, sometimes things need to end and we need to say goodbye, whether it’s an individual. Farewell like that or whether it’s like, okay, well, this committee has been fun.

If you want to come to the closing happy hour, we’re going to have nachos and drinks at this place on this time. Or you can just say goodbye here. See you later. We’re done.

[00:22:37] Nina: There would be nice. If a facilitator has stepped up to really get everybody permission. I am too. I lead creative writing groups twice a week, and I am very much also that facilitator.

And when there isn’t a facilitator, it’s. Me. I’m sure like you too, it’s noticeable. You kind of, yeah. Someone needs to step up make it okay for everyone to leave. I like, I like everything you just said. now on that similar kind of topic of not getting out of a conversation, but just how.

Deal with someone on texts. I put in my Facebook group, dear Nina, the group, that’s a private group that I oftentimes preview questions. And I just brought up that I was going to be talking about texting etiquette in general and a few people.

Did express that they are frustrated and you and I addressed this a little bit in the scheduling example, when they have a question that goes unanswered, or somebody suddenly disappears, because like we said, there really is no end, but sometimes people do just disappear in the middle of a conversation and doesn’t circle back, but let’s think of it more, less of a disappear and more of, they just are taking days to answer something that needs to be answered.

would you call, do you text again and say, Hey, we never heard back from you. I mean, this seems like really basic social 1 0 1, but I’m curious how you handle.

[00:23:49] Kat: If there’s one thing that I’ve learned from researching adult friendship over the last several years, it’s that it’s never a good idea to jump to conclusions or take it personal.

If you don’t hear back from somebody. Or if it takes them a long time to reply because people are really busy, really distracted and delays are just a fact of adult life. So it’s really not the norm. I think that’s for people to reply immediately, you know, hopefully. Somewhat promptly, but if you get a fast reply, like great congratulations, like celebrate that’s really good luck.

The other thing that I also take into note here is that people are super forgetful being distracted leads to forgetful life. Maybe the reason that they didn’t reply to your texts is because they picked up their phone. They opened their text to read it. And at that exact same moment, their dog.

Jumps up on the coffee table, knocks their smoothie over onto the iPad. And then the four year old starts having a tantrum and then the doorbell rings with the delivery and in all of this chaos and cleaning it up, they forget to reply. It’s completely left their mind. And so that’s maybe the reason that they didn’t write you back is cause something else in their immediate moment actually took their attention.

Just entirely forgot, , chances are, they’re not sitting back like ha like laughing that they’re causing you distress about not replying. They’re not like eating Bon bons and watching the seconds on the clock tick by. They’re not doing that. You know, they probably just got distracted because there’s a million distractions in everybody’s life.

So there’s nothing wrong. With taking a breath, not taking it personal. And if you really need a timely answer back to send the gentle ping back to send a little reminder, not like accusatory and mean, and like what the hell, you know, like, you know, but it’s okay to just say Hey, just checking back in.

Really want to get you involved in, the thing that’s happening Sunday afternoon, since I’m making a reservation, I need to know by today at seven, if you’re going to be in or out, no harm, no foul, either way, you know, make it easy for people to decline, make it easy for people to say yes and make it easy on yourself too, while you’re in the waiting period.

[00:25:49] Nina: Yeah, that’s assuming the best is always a good way to go. And I know I am very prompt to text her actually, but sometimes things do fall off and same with email. I totally appreciate a circle back. I’m thrilled if somebody writes me and said, so, were you able to do that date or not? I’m like, oh, I’m so glad it’s there so that I can answer and glad they reminded me.

And so I guess we can assume other people probably are. Two. And if they’re annoyed, maybe they’ll answer faster. Next time.

[00:26:17] Kat: I also think that this might just be, again, coming with the perspective of, researching, what it’s like for so many people and taking it into consideration, not taking a personal, like my clock for my expectations around things like reply times is so stretched out now compared to where it was several years ago.

If I send a text with friends, I don’t necessarily even expect to hear back for two to three days. So. If I hear back immediately. Cool. It’s fun. But when you give yourself a more spacious orientation towards time and something that is an asynchronous conversation, like a text, it’s a lot more relaxing.

Yeah. And a lot less stressful.

[00:26:54] Nina: There was a piece in the Washington post in April. . It was about texting etiquette in general. And the writer brought up a point that I think is a good one. I know other people struggle with and it does fall into that assume the best bucket, but I can see how somebody would take this one a little more personally, if you pour your heart out in a text and it can be argued, whether that was appropriate in the text or not in a lot of cases, it probably wasn’t, but okay.

Tap in. It’s in there. It’s in the text and the person writes back. Yes. Well, I’d say the worst case scenario, they give it a thumbs up. They don’t even put their own thumbs up. They use the thumbs up in the platform. I’d say that’s like the lowest thing you could do at least taking the time to choose an emoji might be better.

, maybe , worse than that is just. Okay. , with like, not even a smiley face, it just an unequal communications or you have said something emotional heartfelt, whether it’s an apology, a something you’re upset. I don’t know whatever it is. And then the other person is like, okay, or got it, or a thumbs up, or I doubt someone would do a thumbs down, but what happens next?

[00:27:59] Kat: that’s a toughie because as you noted in, , bringing up the question, maybe sometimes the text is not actually the best method to communicate, pouring your entire heart out or, or something really, really long and complex, uh, or emotional, you know, maybe have you ever read the four agree?

[00:28:17] Nina: It’s been a long time. So remind me one

[00:28:20] Kat: of them that I think about often, and I think it applies here is like choosing the right time to share something immediately is not always the right time to share something. And so in this case, maybe. Pouring your whole heart out in the text. Maybe that’s the only method.

And the only time you have, or maybe it would be better to say, can we have a phone call? I have something that’s on my heart. I really need to share with you in text. Doesn’t feel sufficient to communicate that. And if for some reason that’s not possible and you’ve got to share it in the text, man, the thumbs up or the okay.

Or the minimalist reply is such a cause of friendship inks. Because like you said, it’s an imbalance. It’s a lack of reciprocity in the emotional engagement of that conversation. So, and the other thing too, that’s another layer of complexity on top of that is the fact that for many people, I recently learned this, , the thumbs up emoji is actually like a passive aggressive kind of a dismissive or even insulting emoji, uh, in my generation, thumbs up is still accepted.

You give them a thumbs up, they get that. It’s positive thing, not a negative thing. Um, but the minimalist reply to a maximalist expression in general. It’s not a fit, just like in a real life conversation. If you said something really serious to me, Nina, and I just stared at you and didn’t react or respond or say anything that would read really strangely.

So the only caveat I put on this is to consider. Is this person that you’re communicating with always minimalistic in their texting. If it is regular for them to not write more than one sentence or a few words, then keep that in context. You know, but if this is someone who does write a lot of texts or like write lengthy texts or response, maybe then the thing is to check in.

Oh, you know, is there another time that we can talk about this? I really want to get your take on it. It’s still on my mind. Do you have five or 10 minutes to talk on the phone today after work? , and then you can actually invite the conversation and have like a fuller expression of this thing that is meaningful to you in a form of communication.

That’s probably going to be more fulfilling, which is a voice to voice conversation. Another thing that I think is really significant here is to think about. Uh, way that if you are the person, like, let’s say you received this like huge heart pouring out texts and you actually don’t have capacity to reply with another, like super, super long text or something significant rather than just giving a thumbs up or an okay.

Or , wow. And leaving it at that. Actually say like, wow, that sounds like a lot. I wish I had the capacity to write something longer right now to, to give you acknowledgement or to talk about this more deeply. I don’t have time for that right now, but I really want you to know I care and let’s pick a time to connect.

Here’s two or three options where we can pick up this conversation. Then the person understands. You’re not going to get a full reply right now. You’re not going to get a whole conversation right now, but this person still cares. They are letting you know, they acknowledged seeing what you’ve shared. They are acknowledging the meaning of it.

And they’re also offering another option to engage more deeply in a way where they can be more present.

[00:31:29] Nina: Yes. This is why you specialize in cultivating connection and healthier friendship. That is such good advice. And it does exactly. The thing, the person who wrote the text probably needs it just scratches that itch of validation.

I was heard, , they probably wouldn’t need a long response. All they need is what you said is this message was received in the spirit. It was intended. No one would say it exactly that way, but that is what you’re saying. , I heard you, I love you. I really got your message and the deepest way that’s all anybody wants to know.

I think, everything we’re talking about. Really well to the better friendship goal the week, which is how I end every episode. And I want to suggest to everybody, and then Kat, you can add anything. You would want that for the better friendship goal this week, pay attention to our texting habits and do two things at once.

Cat and I have really covered them, both, which is take things less personally. so be aware of how our texting might come off. So you might have to have some awareness that the way you text or don’t text might have a certain way it comes off. But also if you’re an avid texter and you’re put off by somebody’s current responses, just consider that maybe that is their texting style.

Like Kat said that if that is often how they text is not about you. And if that is, they’re just not a big texter. I mean, if you’re going to text my mother ever. If you’ve got a response at all, you’re getting the short response and it’s not about you. she’d rather talk to you on the phone.

What’s actually a compliment in some ways, you know, not everyone likes to communicate via text. So whether that’s group chats or one-on-one like, you might have a friend in the group chat, who’s really quiet. I would try to give that person some benefit of the doubt. That’s not like they don’t want to be part of things.

It’s just probably really too overwhelming. if you’re that person who does just give a heart to. Somebody long text and maybe consider stepping up a little bit with a version of what cat’s adjusted, , at least a few words of encouragement and acknowledgement instead of just. An emoji. Anything else you want to add?

[00:33:30] Kat: I would offer as a suggestion to embrace the voice memo, you know, written texts. Isn’t the only way or the best way to communicate something asynchronously. And that when you send a voice memo, you can say a lot more in a lot less time with more warmth and more. Tone and vibe and mood and feeling then you can in writing.

And so this is also really great for people who are having eyestrain issues or just don’t like texting or being on their device as much like the warmth of a voice memo. I can do so much more than a text, even though it is sent often in the same app that you’re using to send the text messages. So it’s one of my favorite ways to connect with friends from a distance.

And I encourage you to try it if you haven’t done it yet.

[00:34:16] Nina: Feel so validated that you said that because I have been trying to convert people to the voice memo. I am a voice memo event.

I love the voice memo. . It’s yes. Everything you said. And that, by the way, I think is probably why people like podcasts so much, because again, it’s something different is conveyed. I’ve been writing about friendships since 2014, but I think my written voice about friendship is very different than my speaking voice.

I think in my writing voice about friendship, I have at times come off as more of you should do this. You should like more of an expert voice. I don’t consider myself an expert, but I think. Sound like I’d consider my cell phone when I’m writing the packets as much more. I’m just a fellow questioner. I really am like, I’m trying to figure out how to not take something personally when somebody just gives me the okay.

I’m just part of it. And that’s hard to convey in writing. At least for me, it’s much easier to convey speaking. So I love the voice memo, cat. I want to give you a chance to tell everyone where they can find you before we say. Yeah.

[00:35:14] Kat: So if anybody wants to check out my work, they can head to my website, which is we should get together.com on there.

I have my information about my books. You can sign up for my newsletter. I have events periodically. You can get on the wait list for those. If there’s not one immediately, I can buy a ticket or a spot to I’m using social media less this year. But if you want to follow me on Instagram, it’s Kat velos underscore author.

That’s K a T V as in Victor, E L L O. But really I’m digging more into my newsletter audience this year because our conversations go deeper engagement is a lot more real than just like a thumbs up. Like you’re talking about in that group text. Like you can just go deeper, I think, uh, in that email format.

So I would love to connect, reach out any time. Thanks for again, for having me on the show. Nina, this has been the light. Thank

[00:36:02] Nina: you. Thank you for giving us your time. And cat does have an excellent newsletter that I subscribe to. I recommend it. And everybody, I hope you’ll take a chance to rate and review.

The show is always, I do like to end my show with my little tagline. When our friendships are going well, we are happier all around. I hope that your texting friendships are successful from here on out. Everybody