#130 – The Sober Curious Lifestyle and the Impact on Your Friendships

Are you (or a friend) considering a sober curious lifestyle?

Do you know someone who has adopted a “sober curious” lifestyle? Perhaps it’s a pivot you’ve been considering for yourself? The term is usually credited to Ruby Warrington, author of Sober Curious: The Blissful Sleep, Greater Focus, Limitless Presence, and Deep Connection Awaiting Us All on the Other Side of Alcohol.

“Sober curious” means you’re curious about how much you’re drinking and how your health, relationships, and work and more might change without alcohol, even if you don’t have an addiction.

Today’s guest, writer and podcaster, Hallie Sawyer, began a sober curious journey several years ago and is here to give Dear Nina listeners an honest account of how it began and why she has stayed completely committed to avoiding alcohol years later.

FIND EPISODE #130 on Apple, Spotify, Youtube, and anywhere you listen to podcasts!

Powered by RedCircle

 

Meet Hallie Sawyer:

Hallie is a writer and host of the podcast, The AWEd Life, which is an acronym for Awake, Well, and Empowered. Living AWEd has been her life filter since challenging herself to give up alcohol for 90 days which is now her M.O. She’s a midlife mom with three adult children who recently became the owner of an empty nest and is ready to take on this next stage of life with gusto. She shares her writing weekly on Substack and you can find her on Instagram at @hallie_sawyer and @theawedlife.

NOTE: the episode transcript can be found by scrolling down to the comments area. 

Links mentioned and other related episodes:

 


Let’s connect over all things friendship! 

 

If you like what you’re hearing,  please tell a friend!
Also, if you can 
rate and/or leave a review on Apple Podcasts, I’d be so grateful.

The following two tabs change content below.
Nina Badzin hosts the podcast Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship. She's been writing about friendship since 2014, co-leads the writing groups at ModernWell in Minneapolis, and reviews 30+ books a year on her website.

[00:00:00] Hallie: I do think it’s an important thing for me to be around people that are in the space of being sober curious because I don’t have time to waste on frivolous relationships. I feel like for me, the people that are in the super curious arena are just a little more in tune with conversation and it’s a little different vibe. I don’t know how else to explain it. Just a different feeling. And that for me has been very rewarding.

So I, I don’t feel like I’ve lost or missed out on anything. I don’t go out here as much, but I feel like I still have a Great relationships that I can reach out to and have conversations with and that’s my substitute for now until I can find the in person people.

[00:00:41] Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina, Conversations About Friendship. I am your host, Nina Badzin. I’ve been writing about friendship since 2014. Almost that entire time I have known today’s guest. Maybe we met in 2012 or something in the writing blogging world. Her name is Hallie Sawyer and Hallie is a writer and the host of the podcast, The Awed Life, which is an acronym for awake, well, and empowered. Hallie is the perfect person to speak to about a topic that has been on my mind a lot because I see it a lot.

I think about it myself sometimes, and it is about the sober curious lifestyle. we get into the definition of what that is so I am not going to tell you that right now. It’s actually a big pet peeve of mine. And when I listened to other podcasts, when you get the entire bio and you get the definitions of things in the intro, and then the host asked the guests all the same things, and then you have to hear it twice. So you are not going to get, uh, hopefully, unless I did a bad job editing, you’re not going to get, Double info from me.

Let’s just get straight to it. Sober, curious, sober, curious lifestyle. Why Hallie decided to go this way. Here you go.  Hi, Hallie. Welcome to Dear Nina. Finally.

[00:01:54] Hallie: I’m so excited to be here. I cannot believe we’re finally doing this on your podcast. I mean, I’m very grateful you came to mine. But now we’re here. We’re in yours and I love this topic, so I can’t wait to sit and chat about friendship and All these great things.

[00:02:06] Nina: You and I have had a lot of voice memos and phone calls and time in person over the years. And I’m just excited for my listeners to get a little direct wisdom from your mouth, because you’ve been through some things. You talk about friendship very openly on your Substack newsletter, in your podcast too.

And I’ll have some of the more, uh, poignant ones that I think will relate to this topic and other friendship topics in my show notes. Before we get into your story, I think it’s important to define sober curious for people. So let’s talk about first, you’re way more the expert. I’m really not. What does this term mean where did it come from?

[00:02:42] Hallie: Ruby Warrington, she wrote a book in December, 2018 called Sober Curious. I really don’t think it actually took off probably until 2021, 22 took a couple of years for it to sit with, uh, I think 2020.

Set it back probably a little bit. Everyone was holed up and, you know, we’ve all seen the videos of the recycle bins with all the glass and all the wine bottles and all those things. So I think that took a little bit of a backseat in 2020, but I think 2021, and maybe that’s what helped jumpstart it too is because 2020 was such a, tough time for people.

So Ruby had written that book in 2018 and I actually didn’t read it. I do think though that term, her coining that, I believe it’s, it is attributed to her, but I think that became the sort of what if phrase for a lot of people that were questioning the relationship with alcohol. Sober curious became a movement because a lot of women were in that place of, I am maybe even hitting perimenopause.

There’s a lot of symptoms that are coming up. I’m not sleeping well. Hormones are all over the place. My weight is going up for no reason. And so there was a lot of questions regarding, okay, I’ve done all the other things. What about alcohol? And I think, the sober curious phrase was more of less, it’s not like I’ve got a problem with alcohol. Like I don’t have I’m not addicted, but it was that what if I took this out and people started to question that? And I think it really was 2021 when it really started to become more of a common phrase I was hearing, especially on social media.

[00:04:05] Nina: I noticed it too, Cause we exist in the same social media. I mean, everybody has a little bit of a different algorithm, but you and I are about the same age and, I agree about from the health perspective, it is one of those levers that you can move up and down. Some things are harder to control, like how much you sleep.

Like, let’s say you have to wake up at a certain time for your job. yes, you can try to get to bed earlier, but maybe other factors. Whereas maybe pulling a lever, like, well, let me see how I feel if I don’t drink might actually seem simpler if you don’t have an addiction, obviously.

I just want to make clear for the listeners that Hallie and I are talking about the desire and curiosity about what it might be like to socialize and live your life either with no alcohol, much less alcohol than you were drinking before, but we’re not talking about addiction and I have done an entire episode on Alcohol addiction and I will put that in the show notes. We can move forward now but I wanted to make sure to say that. But I was saying before it’s like one of the levers that maybe you can pull Assuming that you do have control over that choice and not everyone does but if you do, you might feel differently when all of a sudden you can wake up the next morning and not feel like you over did it.

That’s kind of your point on perimenopause. Like I’ve seen that too. You don’t have to get drunk to feel affected by the alcohol that you had. It could be one glass of wine

[00:05:19] Hallie: I’ve had so many people I’ve been reading and hearing their stories like, I, I used to be able to drink two glasses of wine and now I’m down to, I can’t even do a half. so I think there is a big part of this that is a lot of our physical changes that are happening within our body as we get older.

Just our body doesn’t tolerate it like it used to. you know, when you look at, like you said, the levers that you’ve pulled, maybe that you are exercising more or there’s a lot of other things you’re doing for your health, but the last thing you haven’t taken out as alcohol.

So that’s maybe, I think where that sober curiosity has come into is, okay, this is the last kind of pillar or the last, obstacle in my way of Feeling really good possibly. I don’t think people have ever thought about going there before to this level of, you know, you do the cleanses and you take out dairy and you take out gluten and all the other things, but the alcohol was never, The possibility as well. And I know that for myself, I, back before probably 2018, I never approached it. I did Dry January before, I did it because we had a crazy fall before that, but I didn’t do it because of my health.

I did it because, well, I shouldn’t say that. I did it because I felt like I needed to take a break. But then I dove right back in in February. So for me, even the last, I think, I don’t know, five or six years, I think it’s becoming a hurdle people are willing to jump over finally to feel the way they want to feel.

[00:06:32] Nina: and I know it can affect your friendships because if alcohol is a big part of socializing and, and not just alcohol, like other substances too, we’re generally talking about alcohol, but there’s you know, there’s a lot of other substance use going on. Legal illegal if that’s been a big part of a person’s social life, deciding not to can come with its own issues.

So it’s like you gain something, which might be clarity and better health, maybe you’re able to see other things that you need to change in your life now that you’re not clouding it over with this one thing, but you definitely lose some things too. And this is where I want to hear about your personal experience and you’re just one person, but you’ve also talked to a lot of people by now who have also chosen to move away from alcohol as part of socializing, I’ll shut up so that you can tell us about it.

[00:07:16] Hallie: Well, you know, initially it was interesting when I gave it up, I did it in a challenge actually I did at the end of the year the idea was to stop drinking for the, well, for me, it was to give up one category of food. Mm hmm. Was part of the challenge and

[00:07:29] Nina: What year?

[00:07:30] Hallie: this is 2018 initially for me it was I’m gonna give up dairy. I know it bloats me. I don’t feel good. I feel lethargic. And then I had this little voice that said, But what about alcohol? This is the most social time of your life is in the fall. We do football games or tailgating. Kids play fall sports.

You’re out with people. I mean, it’s my anniversary. It’s the holidays. So all this socialness happening and I was gonna give up alcohol, but I, tend to challenge myself. sometimes I bite off more than I can chew, but this one, I felt like I really needed to test myself, and do this at a time where

my social life was at its highest. What I found was initially people didn’t know how to react. Are you sure you don’t want to drink? Are you sure? Are you sure? And then it became something that I found empowering to say, no, I’m good. what I realized with what I was going through with my relationships, a lot of what I had in my social life at that time was based around drinking alcohol together, live music, going out to dinner, going to the bar and grill after the kids game, hanging out with other parents, alcohol was so always involved at some point.

And when I stopped, I realized I may not have a lot in common with this person other than us getting together and drinking and that was a hard pill to swallow because, and I realized, oh, my gosh, all this time, what was our relationship based on? as time went on, and as I kept going with pulling alcohol back.

I wasn’t completely alcohol free. I went about a year and a half without drinking and it felt amazing. It was great. I went back here and there because I think I was trying to test the waters to see what it’d be like again. And then I realized I could care less.

I don’t need it. But what I found was when I was in a social setting , they didn’t know what to do with me. And sometimes I found that we stopped getting a lot more invites to go do things because it became, I think uncomfortable. Cause I don’t think they knew how, it wasn’t a problem for me.

I chose to stop drinking. I didn’t have to stop drinking. But I think in most people’s eyes, they don’t want to make me uncomfortable. By drinking in front of me, and that’s a big assumption. I do believe part of this there’s a subconscious element here, too, that people don’t always like to be pointed out that there may be their habit is not very healthy. I tended to be the person I went on it, did a cleanse or was eating really healthy. I’d go to the bar and I order a salad and I’d get a lot of crap for that.

And people like, of course you ordered a salad. I should have ordered a salad. Why did you not tell me you’re going to order a salad? And so I think it kind of equates to when I go to the bar and I have a club soda with lime. I know it’s not blatant, it’s not a purpose. It’s not to make anybody feel alienated for drinking or make them feel bad about drinking.

But I think sometimes. It somehow raises that question within themselves. And I don’t think people love to broach that with themselves yet, if they’re not ready for that, it may be a hard topic for them to address. And when you’re around people that don’t drink because they’re choosing not to drink, I don’t know.

I think there’s something about that for some reason that people just don’t want to have to face that. And then begin to maybe complete assumptions. But I also feel like people, you know, when there’s, For me, especially now that I don’t drink, there is that level of, I want to have a great conversation.

I want to have a meaningful moment together hanging out. And when you have one or two, no big deal. But as it gets further in the evening, That changes. You know, people get silly. All of a sudden lewd jokes and it just changes. The mood changes and all of a sudden we’ve gone to another level. So I am pulling back even from social situations so that I don’t have to be around people that I feel like they’re gonna go there.

my husband still drinks, so it’s Not like I can’t be around it at all. one or two is totally fine and we’re still having a great conversation. It’s about the meaningful time together. That means more to me now than anything else. And that’s changed a lot in my friendships.

I’m choosing to be around people that I know I can have a great conversation with. So a lot of times now it’s a coffee date or I’m walking with somebody or we’re chatting on the phone. Those are what keep my friendships going. You know, taking out that element of what alcohol can do to the conversation after a certain point. usually it’s, you know, the bar or going to dinner and all of a sudden it takes a turn. When you’ve been away for a while, it’s a big turnoff. And so I really don’t want to be around it. It can be a little awkward for everybody, depending, but I, I take myself outta situations a lot so that I don’t have to even be in that situation to have to leave or say the awkward

[00:11:34] Nina: makes so much sense. and even though there may be some assumptions there, I mean, you do exist in the world and I don’t think those are all incorrect. nobody can assume everything correctly. Of course. we just never know what someone else is thinking, but lot of that it seems very plausible to me that, It works until it doesn’t work.

you can be out for the night and everything’s fine. No big deal. No one knows what’s in your cup or not. People get there before you, after like we, none of us have to make a big deal about what we’re drinking, but what you’re talking about is a couple hours in, I totally understand what you’re saying. And, and this is true, for other substances too, when you’re partaking and you may feel one way and when you’re not, you feel like a buzzkill or you feel out of it and like you’re ruining the vibe or whatever. So you’re like, okay, I’ll take myself out of the vibe.

[00:12:16] Hallie: That’s exactly it.

[00:12:17] Nina: no problem. that’s some of the challenge of the. sober, curious lifestyle. what are some of the gains? One door closes, another door opens.

[00:12:28] Hallie: I have found a lot of people online, and this is the one bonus about social media that I do love is I can go out there and really search for people. There’s, hashtags and there’s names of accounts that have the word sober in it. I can find all kinds of people that are into this movement and have great conversations with those people.

I’ve exchanged phone numbers now with people. I’m having those conversations offline. I’m following what they’re doing. I’m actually going to go to a retreat in Panama and it’s for women that are living sober. It’s not a sober necessarily retreat, but you know, one of the caveats about coming is we’re, we’re not drinking when we’re there.

It’s about having meaningful, healthy conversation and we’re here to be on vacation mode. We’re here to really be in the moment with each other . I’m looking forward to that. So it’s nice to not even have to worry about that being part of the story at all. I feel like I’m finding people online that are really in the same headspace that I am with it. I’m gaining all these newer friends and community online that I can reach out and talk to. when you do pull yourself out of a situation or a social circle because of this, you need to replace it with something.

[00:13:30] Nina: So important. We got to pause on that for a second. Anything you decide not to do. There’s a loneliness that can come if you don’t replace it actively replace it

[00:13:38] Hallie: And that’s part of it to us. I mean, even though initially I felt hurt by the lack of invites, And my poor husband, he’s a FOMO, uh, he likes to be around all these people and do all the things. And I finally said, Hey, you just go, go be with your buddies, go watch the football game at the bar.

I don’t care. I’m fine. you go do you. but for me, after I got, Kind of over that loneliness feeling or the feeling of being left out. I realized I had changed in a way that I don’t necessarily click with that anymore, nor do I want to be around that. So I have to figure out, okay, who do I want to be around?

What do I want to be doing? And so it’s finding the people that can fill that void, but in a way that I really need in my life. And I, maybe it’s midlife too, or being an empty nester. There’s a lot of other things I can connect with people on. when I find people that are living sober or are sober curious, I find that they are so much more tuned into themselves. They are very present in their lives. They want to soak up every moment. And I think that’s why people do stick with being sober.

Sober or sober curious is because all of a sudden they realize the lights have been turned on life feels a lot more vibrant. They tend to be more introspective , it’s a great conversation because we’re all of a sudden, I think realizing how many conversations we’ve had in the past that maybe weren’t so great.

I can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve had over the years that we probably had gone out to the concert or dinner. And I don’t remember half the details, or it really wasn’t a very great conversation in the first place. now I’m having great, meaningful, thoughtful, inspiring conversations with people because I think there’s something about living sober and sober curious that you just go there.

I really feel like the friendships now that I have, even though a lot of them are online, I’m trying to do my best to, tap into my local market here or my local sober community. There’s a couple of girls that have started a company called Sip Steady. They host a lot of dry events that are social events. They have been great about trying to host , these annual come hang out, Try these new beverages. I mean, the explosion of non alcoholic beverages now is crazy.

[00:15:33] Nina: it’s, uh, like you’re saying, and events too, it’s interesting because it’s acknowledging that we still like to be holding something. There’s like something to gathering around food and drinks and any kind of drinks, alcoholic or not, coffee even, right?

There is, something natural about coming together in a community kind of way around food and drink and so I actually think it’s wise that these companies have decided to instead of trying to say let’s not want to gather around a table like Leaning into the fact that this is how we gather So, how can we still do it without alcohol but still get together with something to drink and eat.

[00:16:06] Hallie: Well, it feels celebratory still. I still want to celebrate. I still want to do fun things. , my friend turns 50 or, celebrating someone at a wedding. I would love to have options that still feel celebratory. That’s not a club soda and or that’s not a whatever beer that’s horrible, I swear the beers initially when we first were, thinking about non alcoholic beers, there weren’t a lot of choices.

And now we have so many things. There’s a wine that’s now non alcoholic, there’s tons. And then a lot of these now have, healthy benefits to them. They’ve got ashwagandha and they’ve got herbs and different things to make you feel maybe relaxed, but where you’re still very cognizant of what you’re doing and where you’re at and who you’re talking to.

So I feel like in my local area, there’s a bigger community. maybe it’s millennial and a little younger. That’s still part of this. I’ve looked at some stats and good old, Gen X is still holding strong to live in the heavy social life around drinking and whatnot, but it’s starting to rub off because we’re like I said before, this midlife has happening and menopause and people are saying, I can’t drink like I used to.

I just physically can’t handle it. I have one glass of wine and I’m down for the rest of the day the next day. So I think it’s happening. Whether people want to or not deal with it, but it’s going to happen the midlifers here, the Gen X crowd here in a little bit. the younger crowd for sure has taken off with it.

The local people that I’m connecting with are younger because they want more of a different kind of experience in life and much more into maybe health and, you know, yoga retreats and different kinds of things.

I’d like to have friends of all ages,. Now it’s an interesting way of meeting people as I have to do a lot of times online. I’m very intentional about who I’m reaching out to, because I do think it’s an important thing for me to be around people that are in the space of being sober curious because I don’t have time to waste on frivolous relationships. I feel like for me, the people that are in the super curious arena are just a little more in tune with conversation and it’s a little different vibe. I don’t know how else to explain it. Just a different feeling. And that for me has been very rewarding.

So I, I don’t feel like I’ve lost or missed out on anything. I don’t go out here as much, but I feel like I still have a Great relationships that I can reach out to and have conversations with and that’s my substitute for now until I can find the in person people,

[00:18:09] Nina: you wrote on sub stack about feeling like maybe you don’t live in the right place anymore. , And I have to imagine this as part of it because you’ve been an online presence for quite some time, even before, well before 2018, when you were starting to dabble in Sober Curiosity. But now you have even yet another reason to have connected with people outside of your hometown, which is Kansas City. How seriously are you taking that?

[00:18:34] Hallie: we’re looking at traveling I love go on vacation and you see, Oh, I could live here. And then you’re like, well, okay, if I was here for more than a couple of weeks, could I really live here? So there’s always been that question of, where are we supposed to live here?

Cause we like, we love the mountains. We love being in mountain towns, but to live there, would it feel isolating? how easy can I get to the gym or the grocery store or whatever? Cause you’re in a vacation mode. So we’ve always wondered about living someplace else. But my biggest thing with all that is we’re in the Midwest, let’s just be honest.

There’s a lot of things that are still tried and true and it’s hard to let go of. And we don’t have mountains, we don’t have, you know, a lot of things at our disposal to keep us busy besides getting together and drinking. It’s just, it’s been part of the social life for a long time.

I mean, you live someplace where, I God love Minnesotans. I went to visit you and the polar vortex a couple of years ago, and I swore to God, I thought for sure I wouldn’t see a soul and no, women are walking around with their dogs and they’re basically wearing a sleeping bag for a coat

[00:19:28] Nina: Yeah, it’s

[00:19:29] Hallie: it.

[00:19:30] Nina: This is an active. town.

[00:19:31] Hallie: You’ve got lakes that are frozen over. Sure as hell, there are people out there skating and doing all the things playing hockey and whatever. if you have places that are active places, you can find a lots of other things to keep you busy besides getting together at the local restaurant or bars or sporting events.

But that’s kind of what all we do. It’s we’re heavy sports town. We’ve got the chiefs, the Royals, you know, we’ve got, all kinds of stuff happening with all that. And I don’t want to generalize, but I feel like a lot of it is revolving around getting together and drinking. We got barbecue and beer, and we have this place with a great wine selection.

There’s everything kind of has wine or has alcohol involved. And I feel like when you live someplace where it’s much more There’s outdoor activities or there’s scenery you have options and you have more people that are more tuned into that. And so I think for us, I would love to venture out just to try different places where we are more active. I am dying to be more, you know, whether it’s pick a ball town at tennis, hiking, learning to fly fish, all that stuff.

I am all on board.

[00:20:27] Nina: I gave you an assignment on your

[00:20:28] Hallie: did, I know,

[00:20:30] Nina: I forgot to check in with you on pickleball or was it tennis? I think

[00:20:34] Hallie: was tennis, it was tennis at that time, but, we did get pickleball paddles for Christmas. my husband’s got a shoulder injury he’s still recovering from, he had surgery a year ago. And so he’s been battling that. and I could do it on my own, but things for us to do together as a couple, we’re this close to him being ready to roll.

I do want to do all those things. we are traveling in March to go out to Colorado for six weeks to be close to our boys. We’re going to stay in a rental to watch them play ball because we go back and forth nine hours each way to go watch them play every weekend when they do play, in their school.

And it’s a lot of travel. So we decided let’s stay for six weeks and see if we can, give ourselves a break, but also give us a chance to live someplace else. And we can see what it’s like to live in a little mountain town. It’s right outside of Colorado Springs and we’re going to live there for six weeks. And so that’s, I’m getting a taste of it,

[00:21:21] Nina: that’ll be such a great content,

[00:21:23] Hallie: take my podcast with me and record there as well. We’ll see how it goes, but I think that’s going to give us a good taste of a way. I think we do want to either travel more or do more long term if we’re not moving from the house, it’s hard because gosh, to, Get something new now.

I mean, you got to find the right neighborhood. I don’t want to be in an elementary school neighborhood anymore. I don’t need to have be close to the bus stop. You know, we don’t have any of those needs anymore as midlifers that have empty nest, but in a place to that. I don’t feel like I’m in a nursing home either.

I don’t want to be, you know, on a great place where we have activities. And I think that’s my big goal now with friendships is to find people that are out doing things. I don’t want to be holed up inside. at a dinner or a bar or whatever, I want to be out and about and I want to be around people that are active and adventurous and are into that because then I feel like even if they do have a beer or two, big deal. I, it’s just, it’s not the main. agenda.

[00:22:09] Nina: So you see yourself sticking to this lifestyle, you enjoy it. You get more good than, than not is how you’re feeling.

[00:22:17] Hallie: yeah, absolutely. I think for me, I like who I am so much better. And I feel like I show up for people in a different way than I ever had been before. When I was back drinking, I wasn’t paying attention to conversations. I probably was a jerk. I don’t think I was really my true self. I feel like now I’m finally becoming who I’ve always wanted to be, but I could never do that with alcohol. And I’m not saying, you can’t be all who you want to be if you have a couple of drinks here and there. I’m not saying that at all. But for me, it just felt like it was such a fog machine

[00:22:47] Nina: I’ve been waiting for you to say that. It’s the word that’s been on the tip of my tongue. I had a different word, but that’s a good word, fog. I had the word dull

[00:22:53] Hallie: hmm. Very same thing. It’s like a mirror that you can’t ever quite get clean. I know, or something just feels streaky. Like you’re, you’re the laptop camera. I can’t ever look at a good clear picture. And when I stopped drinking, I finally got a good clear picture.

now that I have that, I don’t want to go back. There’s no way I want to go back to what I used to be. Because I just love what I see. I love where I’m going. My motivation’s been off the charts. Creativity has gone up. There’s just so many benefits that I’ve had because I took alcohol out that I just don’t enjoy any of it anymore.

Like I’ll take a sip. I’m like, I mean, I have a daughter that ordered a glass of wine. She’s like, Oh wow, this is really good. I’ll have a sip and go. That is really good. And then I’m good. Like I have no desire. So I’m not like, I can’t have one sip but I’m also. I just don’t have any desire. What has been the biggest benefit for me is when I’ve made the cognitive connection between what alcohol was like in my life to then how I felt, how I showed up in my life.

And now that I’ve taken it out. I know how much better I am without it, that it’s, it’s really easy for me to cut the cord because of that connection. It’s anything, if you know that you eat dairy and it makes you feel bloated and all these other things you probably cut back dairy quite a bit. Like you’re going to go, I don’t, we don’t want to feel that way anymore.

[00:24:01] Nina: Mm hmm. Like

[00:24:02] Hallie: same with it.

[00:24:03] Nina: it. I think that’s what we’re talking about is weighing the benefits and the, deficits of it. So it’s not no, it’s funny, I feel like because if I had done this interview three years ago, it would have been not quite as evolved because I’ve known you a while.

and I’m so glad to be talking to you now, so that people can see what it’s like on the side of it. It definitely is hard at first. You don’t have to change your social life. Like you said, you didn’t have to, nobody, you know, made you necessarily explicitly feel bad.

But over time it sort of became almost like a mutual like, okay, maybe having Hallie around isn’t as fun as it used to be. And maybe you being around certain people wasn’t as fun as it used to be. Like let’s just call a spade a spade. we’re not talking about big friendship breakups and tears and drama.

We’re just talking about, the change, the natural change when you change such a big element of your life. that wasn’t so easy. . And yet a good message for listeners.

If you are feeling good, then it may be worth dealing some of the icky parts of having to realign your social life, which obviously is not easy because that’s like my whole podcast is about. People struggling to realign their social lives for any number of reasons. Divorce and, you’re single and all your friends are married.

And then all of a sudden you realize, okay, I don’t want to be hanging out with all these couples. I got to go find other stuff to do. And there’s a lot of reasons people need to make changes, big changes.

[00:25:20] Hallie: Yeah. And you’re just evolving if with anything, whether it’s like you said, divorce, whatever you just, you’ve evolved into a person that doesn’t drink. maybe that’s where your friendships then evolve as well because of that change in you, you no longer have the connections or the reason to get together because maybe that’s just that that’s their focus.

I’m going to finish with one quick story about this, which is really cool. I grew up with my best friend, growing up and we started drinking early high school. that’s what we did, drink, drink, drink, every vacation went together, drink together. when I stopped drinking, she initially reached out to me and said, Oh my gosh, I didn’t know you were an alcoholic.

Cause she found out from a post I had shared on Instagram and her, she’s really not on social media. So her sister saw it and, and she texts me, she’s like, Oh my gosh, I didn’t realize she’d go through treatment. It’s like, no, I just decided to stop drinking. Whenever I’d go to their house, we’d swing by and see them.

They live back up in Omaha I’d pop in. And I knew that she was really struggling with, are you sure you don’t want something? Cause that’s all, you know, we always, as couples got together and we drank and I’ve known her forever. And so that was a big part of our, way we socialize together. it was last year we went vacation together and we don’t talk all the time.

We’re those kind of best friends that don’t talk for months and we see each other and we’re all great. And sure enough, I’m like not really drinking. She comes off the plane and we meet outside and she tells me, I quit drinking. Now, what, what happened? And so she shared with me that she was going out to lunch with friends.

We’d have a glass of wine at lunch, a couple of glasses of wine. And all of a sudden I was realizing, what am I doing? So she had an epiphany for herself she decided she no longer wanted to do it. So she had this whole experience on her own. And it’s so great because now we went on vacation last year and we didn’t drink together.

It was so refreshing. We were able to hang out and have great conversation. And I never would have guessed the two of us would be in the situation. I didn’t do with her. She didn’t do with me that we eventually came to the same Realization. So we have another thing that now bonds us. it’s nice to know that I have some that I care so deeply about that I’ve got such a history with that now understands this part of me because for a long time she didn’t.

So now she does. And it’s amazing. So don’t give up hope on the friends that maybe you think are never going to get it because they may come to that Conclusion someday too. And you can come back together and have a great friendship and even have a better friendship because of what they’ve chosen to do and taking alcohol out because it can make your relationship way more than it ever was before.

[00:27:30] Nina: That’s a great story to end on. I am so appreciative of you coming on here and talking about something that’s really personal. it’s something that people are hungry to understand more about, especially when a term becomes really used a lot in the world and people don’t know exactly what it means. I’m very grateful and I just adore you and I admire you and I’m rooting for you and your friendship project, which I will be Linking in the show notes. That’s like a whole different topic. I’ll have you back on to talk about that

[00:27:56] Hallie: Yeah. Sounds great. I love being on here. Thank you so much. Always listen to whatever you have to say about friendship and I’m happy to, to do my part to join the conversation.

[00:28:04] Nina: You’re the best. Listeners come back next week when our friendships are going Well, we are happier all around. Thanks, Hallie!

[00:28:11] Hallie: You’re welcome.

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Hi, I'm Nina

HI, I’M NINA BADZIN. I’m a writer fascinated by the dynamics of friendship, and I’ve been answering anonymous advice questions on the topic since 2014. I now also answer them on my podcast, Dear Nina! I’m a creative writing instructor at ModernWell in Minneapolis, a freelance writer and editor, and an avid reader who reviews 50 books a year. Welcome to my site! 

Get The Newsletter

I send an email once or twice a month with the latest friendship letters, podcast episodes, book reviews, recipes, and more.

Hi, I'm Nina

DEAR NINA: Conversations About Friendship is a podcast and newsletter about the ups and downs of adult friendship. I’m the host, Nina Badzin, a Minneapolis-based writer who accepted a position as a friendship advice columnist in 2014 and never stopped. DEAR NINA, the podcast, started in 2021, and has been referenced in The Wall Street JournalThe Washington PostTime Magazine, The GuardianThe Chicago TribuneThe Minneapolis Star Tribune, and elsewhere

Get The Newsletter

I send emails through Substack with the latest anonymous friendship letters, podcast episodes, book reviews, and more.

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.