You Can Let Go of Toxic Friends
I’m so lucky to have Renée Schuls-Jacobson as my March “Hobbies and Habits” guest blogger. In case you’re new to the series, the objective is to try adding something positive to your life in 2012 or to let go of something that’s bringing you down. Today, Renée reflects on how she distanced herself from a toxic friend.
Hopefully you discovered Renée’s fantastic blog, Lessons From Teachers and Twits, last week when I was her guest. But if you didn’t, then you’re in for a treat. Renée, a teacher for 20 years, tells it like it is. A writer who tackles many topics, she always makes me think, and she often makes me laugh. Today’s post is on the serious side, so make sure to check out her blog for the full Renée experience.
A generous blogger and friend, I’m honored to have Renée on the blog today. (You can also follow her on Twitter and Facebook.)
Here she is!
When You Know Someone Dislikes You
I know this woman, Teri, who hates me.
Once, at a get-together, I tried to be mindful that she’d had a newborn baby. I’d made pretty nametags and purposefully positioned Teri so that she would have easy access to the bassinet. I figured if her littlun needed attention, she could get up without having to squeeze past eleventeen-bajillion people.
“Nice to seat us so far away,” she complained. “I see where we rank.”
I felt undone by her sarcasm and after she had departed without saying goodbye for the umpteenth time, I burst into tears. “Why does she hate me?” My husband shrugged and told me to let it roll off my back.
The Friend Who Disapproves Of You
For decades, Teri had sneered at gifts I’d carefully selected. While a guest in my home, she’d criticized my food: my soup was alternately “too salty” and then it was “tasteless.” Once, I actually called her out on the way she treated me and she began to cry big, gloppy tears.
Astoundingly, everyone got mad at me for making Teri sad.
Let it roll off my back? I’d been trying that for years and it wasn’t working.
Eventually, things got so uncomfortable that I found myself sitting with a therapist, trying to deconstruct the weird dysfunctional dance that I was doing with Teri.
“What would happen if you didn’t attend functions if you knew she would be there?” Doc asked.
Avoidance?
I contemplated that.
“You mean, like, avoid her?”
“I mean minimize contact; otherwise, you are setting yourself up to feel awful. Why would you do that?”
I thought about that one. Why would I do that? Why had I been doing that? I wondered, feeling limp like the blue sweater that hung on the back of Doc’s door.
Doc talked about how sometimes it is necessary to minimize unpleasant situations. “I know I don’t like cold weather, so I try to get to Florida as often as I can in the winter,” he said. “If someone were to invite me to Siberia, I wouldn’t go because I know I’d be setting myself for a bad time.”
Doc asked me to make a list of things that I really didn’t enjoy doing, but felt obligated to do. Like a good girl, I did my homework, and together, we looked at the list at our next session. Doc explained how everyone has to do some unpleasant things. For example, if I like to have clean underwear, I need to do laundry.
But Doc talked about minimizing things that he considered optional.
I had never heard of this concept before; I honestly thought that a person had to do everything he or she had been asked to do and do it without complaint. Doc said I could be more selective. He taught me about toxic people: folks who, through their actions or words, either intentionally or unintentionally, make others feel miserable. That was a new concept to me, too. Doc suggested it was time to set better boundaries to protect myself. And he taught me to stop looking for friends and family members to protect me from Teri.
“She’s been acting like this for decades,” he said. “No one is going to take your side, so you’ve got to stop trying to fix her.”
Minimizing Contact
So I tried the minimizing thing.
At first, it felt weird. Like I was a bad for not going to every get-together. But gradually I could see how much better I felt by not having to regularly interact with Teri.
Do I always avoid functions when I know Teri will be in attendance? No. But I have learned that if I am feeling fragile it is better to tell my husband I think it would be best if he goes it alone. Does my husband like this arrangement? I doubt it. I’m sure he wishes we could all just get along. But I can’t worry about that. That’s his wish. And I can’t control what he wants. I only know that I have to have some serious invisible bubble-suit armor on in order to prepare myself for what really amounts to abusive behavior that no one else wants to address or correct.
Daryl Hall & John Oats once sang: “I can’t go for that.” (No can do.) These days I’d rather make myself scarce than deal with emotional vampires like Teri who seek to sap me of my energy and suck me dry.
What strategies have you found to be effective when dealing with toxic people?
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137 Responses
Amen Renee. I just started this in my own life (setting boundaries and distancing myself from friends and family who make me feel like crap) and I am a much healthier, happier woman because of it. Good on you my friend. And your doc sounds fab. Love the blue sweater.
I just started doing the same thing. My MIL is VERY toxic and I did something that pissed her off so bad (I had the nerve to invite my friend and her kids over when she was here) she hasn’t talked to me FOUR months. If I would have known that would make her so angry, I would have done it YEARS ago. Don’t let others dictate your life.
Hi El. Isn’t it weird? That these boundaries which some people set so easily have to be taught to others. It isn’t always easy, but it is working — not only in this relationship but in others.
And thanks for having me, Nina.
Once, I actually called her out on the way she treated me and she began to cry big, gloppy tears.
I have been in this very situation. This. Very. One. Reading this sentence reminds me just how happy I am to not have a single Teri in my life anymore.
My mom had a bunch of them. I’d watch her try to do nice things for her “friends,” only to have them do things (in turn) like tell her things like, “If they ask me to testify if you’re a bad mom, I’ll happily accept.”
Then I’d listen to her talk to my godmother on the phone, breathe a sigh of relief and think, “That’s the kind of friend I want in my life. Real, I-disagree-with-your-politics-and-what-you-just-did-right-there-but-I-love-and-support-you-always friends.”
If a “friend” started poking me with words too often to see how I responded, or took clear delight in making me feel miserable, I cut them out. Fast. I still run into one such person’s dad when I’m back in my hometown, and he’ll say, “She could really use a friend if you’ve got some time.” And I’ll say again, “I have too little time to accept people being mean to me because it makes me feel better.”
It sucked to walk away from friendships. Once away, it was easy to see they weren’t ever friendships, and to be so, so grateful to see and have some that really were.
I love Doc’s likening it to hating the cold and vacationing in Siberia nevertheless. I’m going to call on this the next time toxic friends comes up in conversation, which usually happens in the context of a friend feeling guilty she’s considering ditching her own Teri.
I speak my mind and can be a little too forthright for my friends sometimes, but I try (*usually* with success!) to temper and limit those words, to where the number of them are dwarfed in comparison to those I’ve spoken with loving smiles.
You are right, Deb. Once away, it is easy to see that these relationships really are not constructive. As a person who likes to bs liked, it’s hard to walk away.
But.
I’ve learned it’s actually easier than staying.
The therapist is right. Avoidance is the best policy if all else fails. I had a toxic relationship with a woman in my office. She just didn’t like me. After we both moved to a different office we sort of bonded but she was still more of a friend of my husband than my friend, I avoided her mostly and tried to be pleasant when we had to work together, knowing that we would never be friends.
Isn’t it strange that I never ever knew that minimizing contact was an option? Now it seems so obvious.
Well said, Renee! It’s not easy to do because we women folk are often programmed to “go along to get along”. I share a toxic personality in my circle who pushes all my insecurity buttons (and there are many). So, I keep the encounters to a minimum and conversation is surfacy but it’s better for me. Don’t think said person has noticed–doesn’t seem to care. Fine by me. There are plenty of positive folks to hang out with–thanks for writing this piece!
Erm! I think you are on to something when you say we are trained to go along with things. I have had other uncomfortable relationships with women (& men) in my life, and I just didn’t know how to pull the plug on things. I thought my discomfort was not important. Big mistake. Good friends don’t leave you feeling consistently terrible about yourself
This is a great way to look at the female thing of it all, Renee. We can believe we are liberated, above the old clithes, but so many of us still suffer from the “good girl” syndrom. In order to be a good girl you have to smile in the face of someone who is obviously rude or toxic. It takes practice and time to be able to let go. No, not everyone will like you because you are a good girl. And you will find you can still have a full and happy life even knowing there are still those who don’t like you. It’s not just letting it roll off, its learning how to dodge those bullets and a moving target is harder to hit. Move out of the line of fire and don’t worry if there might be a few people in your life who don’t appreciate what a good girl you are. (The seating to help your “friend” with her baby is a prime example.)
There is also the obvious, which for a long time in my life, I never “got.” Your friend is probably jealous, or feels inadequate in front of you. Women, like little girls, don’t either fight or flight. That is a man thing. If they don’t like each other as boys, it’s either a punch in the nose or they go play with someone else. Girls go after each other with a passion and seem to relish the drama … “But mom, she was so horrible to me.” And two minutes later she was on the phone with the same girl. Remember that everyone doesn’t have to love you, and that the sign of someone who is really more insecure than you is attack. It’s okay Renee, Nina is a good friend and her positive vibes can disolve a lot of toxic waste 🙂
I don’t know if she feels jealous, insecure. I have spent so much energy trying to figure it out. That’s what women do, right? For all I know she could have a personality disorder. I just can’t spend the energy on it anymore. I guess I’m okay with with being less liked. Maybe.
“And you will find you can still have a full and happy life even knowing there are still those who don’t like you.” SO TRUE, and something I have to remind myself of ALL THE TIME.
The trick I use when avoidance is impossible–sometimes toxic folks are co-workers of mine, maybe even my husband’s or family members–is to turn things around, paradoxical intervention. Rather than trying to make the person feel better–because they really don’t want to–I tell them that they’re right. They really should feel miserable because___________. Or I make an inquiry of them that changes the subject to something I know they can’t complain about–“You’re darling baby looks so cute in that outfit. Can I get a picture of the two of you??” Then I bring out the iPhone and talk to the baby…maybe even walk away with said baby to give mom a break. And who knows what I whisper into that poor child’s ear, sympathy, words of encouragement, promises of overnights at Aunt Re-Re’s. It’s still avoidance, a refusal to be abused or to have my good will trampled upon. Do I still complain to my husband and threaten to stay home next time??? I sure do. The difference is that I know that I haven’t given my power over to toxicity, which is what this is all about, feeling empowered about my decisions and my life. And unfortunately there are those who only feel power when they are allowed to make friends, family, co-workers, acquaintences feel bad. Sometimes you just gotta build fences…
Ah, building little fences. Yes. And you are right: we can’t always avoid the toxic people in our lives. Co-workers, etc. In those cases I would probably do as you suggest: distraction techniques followed by a hasty departure. I still try to remove myself.
I am fortunate to not have had many toxic people in my life. But I am a “people pleaser” and it can be hard for me if someone doesn’t like me. I do everything I can to make them change their mind. I need to realize that it is OK to walk away.
The one person who is toxic for me, unfortunately, is my mother. I moved 1/2 way across the country 16 years ago, and that helped, but because I don’t want to cut myself off from my dad, I can’t sever ties completely. As you mentioned, sometimes you can’t avoid the person completely. I can just do my best to limit our contact.
Chrystal:
I understand the pain of having a toxic family member. I have a strained relationship with my own mother. I have learned to love Caller ID and only pick up when I am in the best of moods. And while this has never worked for me (as my parents are attached at the hip), I do know people who have been able to arrange special outings with one parent or another, which have been successful for both people. That said, having toxic relationships in those primary relationships is beyond painful. It leaves us wondering “why?” Why can’t I get along with my own parents/siblings? What is wrong with me? Someone once said, “It takes two to tango.” Well, sometimes it’s better to dance alone.
I think this is a great companion to the piece that Nina wrote on your blog. There are many different types of friends…and some people who will never be your friend. I totally agree with your Doc and everyone else who has commented here: You do not need to be friends with everyone. I do my best to avoid people in those situations. I never initiate a connection, and we are thrown together (ie – parties or social events), I just concentrate and socializing with other people.
Larisa: you know me. It’s my instinct to want to be “friends” with everyone. I’ve learned to be more cautious. You know, in my old age. 😉
Larisa, we sort of touched on the different sides of the friendship topic without planning to. The two issues for sure go well together though. Thanks for reading both posts!
Great post Renee and a universal tpoic. Loved “emotional vampires”
Well, they are! Right? 😉
okay – topic
I think your doc has given you solid advice. You can’t change anyone but yourself. And since it’s unlikely that Teri will suddenly recognize the error of her ways, it’s up to you to look out for yourself. To protect your own soul.
It does feel like my soul is at stake sometimes. I used to have an old “friend” who was so competitive with me. I wish I had known about minimizing a long time ago. Of course, when one is in school, it is difficult to minimize these interactions altogether. We are forced to sit next to each other, do groupwork together, etc. Still, why I allowed this person to treat me so cruelly is beyond me. Beyond!
Great things to remember. It’s still so hard for me to not ask the question “why?” Why doesnt she like me? What am I doing wrong? But I think minimizing contact with people, when it’s possible, makes sense. Thanks!
Sometimes it has nothing to do with you. I think Maya Angelou once said, “I’m not in it.” Sometimes, we’re not even part of the drama; it only feels like we are. We just represent someone or something that triggers something in a person. Well, how can we change our essential selves? We can’t. Believe me. I’ve tried. Not good.
For my situation with my former friend, I honestly believe it really has nothing to do with me. What she’s done is transferred her frustrations about her abusive guy on to others. The people she knows care about her the most, she feels the safest in dumping her bad attitudes on and when I started to step back & see it more clearly, I saw her dumping it on other people & not just me. She is an angry person but deep down, I know she isn’t really angry with me (that was why this has been so very hard) because she has seemed to change so much due to this man’s influence. He’s controlling & manipulative and I’m positive other people have seen this same scenario played out in their interactions with her or with them as a couple. But, just like the alcoholic who refuses to get treatment will eventually lose more & more until they have nothing or no one around them, I feel certain that my former friend will wake up one day & wonder where everyone went.
Living in denial is easier than admitting that this guy doesn’t love her, it’s easier than admitting he doesn’t want to marry her & won’t marry her & likely has someone on the side. I think she worries constantly about him and doing what is necessary to keep him. So, while it’s really NOT about me, our friendship has been one of the casualties for her continued obsession to keep this man in her life & she’s doing it almost at any cost now. Sad. I pity her but I have little sympathy for her because she has a choice and I also have a choice. The interesting part is that I’m almost positive that she hasn’t figured out that I’m really done with her (except for the work relationship). I’m really moving on, and although it’s been hard, it’s been more rewarding to face the fact that I deserve someone who values my friendship & isn’t so messed up that I have to worry about where I stand in their lives anymore. I can let go & free up some emotional space for someone more worthy of my time.
Oh yeah, that is my biggest downfall right there. I definitely suffer from “why doesn’t she like me?” syndrome. It serves nobody.
Life is just too short. We can’t squander it trying to fix relationships that are un-fixable. It’s really a breakthrough moment when one realizes that. Good for you, Renee. 🙂
Hi Cynthia.
It did feel like a breakthrough on the conceptual level.
But.
It was still really hard to follow through and actually do it.
And even harder to sell to my husband. It’s still hard every time a social event comes up.
Uck! My job requires that I deal with toxic people every day! Unfortunately, I can’t avoid them, because I want a paycheck. In my case, I am fortunate enough that there’s at least one other person in the building who finds that same person obnoxious and hurtful. And on the days there isn’t a person like that, or the levels of toxicity reach boiling point? My boyfriend and I go out to Applebees for half-price appetizers, share stories, and get ready for another day of the same.
If only people treated each other mindfully of that old, kindergarten-taught Golden Rule.
Fab post!
Working with toxic people is misery. But at least you have found a friend with whom you care share stories. Be careful though. In my experience, if someone is talking about someone to you, they just might be talking about you to someone else, too. (Did that make sense?) I’m glad you have a great boyfriend to go home to.
It is my understanding that 1/2 price appetizers can solve a lot of problems. 😉
It is very true that can happen, but I have come to be okay with it. Sometimes even the best of friends cannot stand each other!
On particularly bad days, though, we even spring for the lava cake. If you like lava cakes and are open to the chain-restaurant version, Applebees has the BEST one.
I have to admit to not being as strong and evolved as you when it comes to this issue; for some reason I have not been able to let go of the concept of wanting – no, needing – everyone to love me. EVERYONE. Even the people I don’t care for myself. (Perhaps even especially those people…)
It’s almost like it’s a challenge for me; something to WIN, you know? Which is wrong, I realize; and weak in its own way.
Perhaps this is because I’ve always BELIEVED I’m fairly easy to get along with; not too harsh or sharp or opinionated-out-loud; my entire family is full of people who smile and shake hands and bend over backward to make others feel good, comfortable, happy. (For better or worse.) My natural instinct is to think, “But why? Why don’t you like me? What can I do to make you love me?” (Bonnie Raitt, anyone?)
So. Although I realize there have surely been people for whom I was not their cup of tea, I am rarely aware of it and when I do discover someone doesn’t like me, it’s devastating.
I wish I had the wisdom to say it doesn’t matter. But I’d be lying.
Fortunately, the internet has allowed people to sort of anonymously select those with whom they click (on blogs, facebook, twitter) and cut away from those who clash with us. I remember *meeting* you at Leanne’s place and there was an instant connection which we’ve nurtured. With others, the results have been less…successful. But I’ve never had open conflict with anyone online.
So, my dear Renee, THANK YOU for sharing your story and your insight; and going forward I will keep in mind that there are plenty of people (like you and Nina!!!) who like me just the way I am.
Either that, or I’ll start therapy…
Julie.
I think it is a little bit of a teacher thing that drag through life with us. You, me, Nina, Leanne… We want ALL of our students to love us, no? We want our administrators to think we give the best lessons, right? Teachers are generally approval seekers (in my opinion). We are always striving to be better. We attend conferences with other people to learn how to be better. And we are expected to get along with a lot of different people.
But.
You know darn well that *clears throat* “You can’t make them love you if they don’t.” (Thanks Bonnie Raitt.) This is the tricky wicket. I had to let go of that wanting part. And I’m not kidding. Getting that therapy was the best thing that I ever did for myself.
Because.
It has helped me in my writing. And it has helped me as a mother. It helped me cut out the people who have been bringing me down for years. I have better boundaries now. Little trees that I have planted to block out certain people. But the benefits have far outweighed any cons. And I will say this: since you have a book in the hopper. Not everyone is going to love it.
(I mean, of course everyone is going to love it.)
But some douche-bag won’t.
So.
It behooves you to get a feel for the slightly less cruel world, away from the safe blogosphere in which we all reside so tenderly. Because you are an amazing writer. Waaaaaay better than I am. For reals. But I wouldn’t want you to feel crushed by the weight of a few negative review. Did I say a few? I meant one. Did I say one? I didn’t mean one. Because everyone is going to love your book.
But seriously, consider picking that scab. And yes, I will marry you.
I can’t even read negative reviews (as just a reader). It puts me into a fit of anxiety and makes it hard to write. Your published authors out there are brave!
Julie is NOT going to get any negative reviews. 😉
That’s true!
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I hear you. I try to (and am relatively successful at) not take things personally. If someone is like Teri, I try to acknowledge (in my head) that she has her own issues. BUT. I am less successful dealing with people who are IRL friends who are slightly toxic but who “need” me. Does that make sense? Likely not. I feel (and am sometimes guilted into) that I owe them something.
Sigh.
But I’m happy I set you two up!
Because teachers like to be needed, too.
Let’s see how skinny we can make this thread.
And of course I know what you mean. 😉
I would do the opposite of what your MD recommended. I mean, why should you have to change your life when she has the problem? I’ll tell it to you straight: some women cannot handle envy: if you are thin, attractive, intelligent, and have done anything of accomplishment, then the green eyes pop out and they hate you. That’s all it takes. Sometimes just having a nicer house or car or kids that achieve in school or in athletics will do you in.
Stay away. But don’t avoid something you want to be at because of her.
Forget her.
I had a neighbor, so glad she’s gone now, who would pop into my house unannnounced and tell me I needed to get off the computer and clean up and declutter. I had it with her, I told her so.
She has badmouthed me and now I”m known as the neighborhood internet addict.
Who cares. In the end, when we die, who cares. Petty people? I don’t need them. It’s why I turned to the internet for my friends. Shitty in real life people are the main cause and drive behind the droves that get online. Every day.
Alexandra:
I NEVER let Teri interfere with something that I want to do.
But…
Most of the time it’s just not worth it. And we’re not talking about petty jealousy here (I don’t think.) I think there really she has a formal diagnosis: some kind of personality disorder. I am not interested in trying to fix broken people nor am I interested in spending my precious time (when I could be writing my book) with doojies. Yes, doojies. I’m an English teacher, so I can make up words.
I knew I was getting dangerously close to a confrontation, especially since she’d been inappropriate with me one too many times in MY OWN HOUSE. But then my therapist was like: Why do you keep inviting her in? Duh? Why did I keep inviting her in? I learned to stop offering up invitations, stop answering emails, calls: all of it. She got it pretty quickly.
When I have to see her, it’s 100% hideous. But at least I know what I’m in for and I must REALLY want to be somewhere to HAVE to endure her abuse.
I loved your article and I so get everything you wrote, but why would you have to be ANYWHERE that she is? I had a friend so vile, she even tried to start problems between my Husband’s Father/and his Wife and us. She would meet people at our parties, get their information and invite them over for dinner…tell them that we would be there (because they thought it was a little strange) and then when they came over she would say that we couldn’t make it! She did so many f’d up things, I finally just stopped talking to her, stopped all email, stopped all calls, blocked her number, and I won’t go anywhere she is going to be. My close friends figured her out right away but other people didn’t get “it” until much later. I haven’t had to see her for at least five years!!!
That is such a good question! Let’s just say that maybe Teri is more of a family member than a friend, how’s that? So there are certain social obligations where I would be expected to attend, but I have chosen to to opt out. I realize this makes me look like “the bad one,” but boy am I happier.
Don’t see the long comment I just left. Will email you to check spam folder.
xo
Waaaah! Where is my Empress?! Will check back.
Found it!
I do exactly what your doc said, I avoid them. That goes for family members also.
Agreed! Because family members can be toxic, too. ’nuff said!
Right on!
It took me a long time to get to the point when I realized I needed to just let go of toxic friends. It is amazing how one person can make a good situation/get-together/etc. into an awkward, uncomfortable mess. Great post, and so very true.
Isn’t it though? I used to run into Teri at the grocery store and, I swear, it was like instant paralysis. And nobody puts baby in the corner. Seriously. (Thank you, Patrick Swayze & Dirty Dancing.) And every time I even saw her, I could barely look at her. Even in my own house. How pathological is THAT? It had to stop. I haven’t seen her in a long time, and even in writing this, I feel crazily exposed. I keep waiting for the phone to ring. For the confrontation. But I think she is probably relieved, too. Probably.
Or clueless. Either way. 😉
Good for you, Reneé. I’m glad you are taking care of yourself. I, too, avoid toxic people at all costs and have cut off a couple of friendships that were unhealthy. Life is too short for bullshit. XO!
Hi Jen. I really do avoid toxic peeps at all costs. Meanwhile, when are you calling me? Or are you over it? 😉
This is such a great topic. I think most women run into the problem. We’re raised to be “nice” and assume we’ve done something wrong if people don’t like us. I was raised by a compulsive people-pleaser who taught me to be the world’s doormat. It wasn’t until I got therapy that I finally saw what was happening. I had been taught behavior that was drawing narcissists to me. No matter where I was, I’d be surrounded by mean people. I finally read a few books on narcissistic personality disorder and learned the warning signs (and what signals I was sending to draw them to me.) You can never please a person like Terri, because they get their pleasure from tormenting nice people. They have no empathy and no remorse. Nothing you give them is enough. Their only emotion is self-pity. If you showed up on her doorstep with a check for a million dollars, she’d beat you up because it wasn’t ten million. Staying away and keeping all communication to bland platitudes is the only way to rid yourself of these people. Therapy doesn’t help, because they think everybody else has the problem.
Man, anne: this is the best comment ever. I need to get that back. I seem to come up against A LOT of narcissists.
BOOK! BOOK!
I need to get that BOOK! (cuz I got plenty enough back… xo)
“The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists” is great. Also “Why is it Always about You?” and “Disarming the Narcissist.” Go to amazon, search for “narcissists” and you’ll find a bunch. Yes, I had to read a lot of books before I really “got” it.
Those sound like great reads. I may have to pick those up. Thanks for the recommendation.
“You can never please a person like Terri, because they get their pleasure from tormenting nice people. They have no empathy and no remorse.”
Boy did you hit the nail on the head there, AnneRallen! I’m sure that there is some kind of DX that goes along with Teri’s behavior. Borderline Personality Disorder. It was clear she was a narcissist from the start. The hardest part was when everyone turned on me for making HER cry. That was when I scheduled the appointment because, like you, I used to attract mean people. Not. Anymore. Only lovely lovers. Seriously. It changed everything. Amazing how something as simple as choosing to not answer the phone or not go to a party or not invite someone to a gathering could make such a difference, but it has. It has! I’m glad you found a helpful therapist, too. Sometimes people don’t get a good one and then they declare “therapy sucks.” With the right person to guide you, real change is possible.
I really like this; it makes perfect sense to me. Why do people think tey must subject themselves to toxic people. Just say no!
Replace “Teri” with “my in-laws” and it’s my situation verbatim… except I cannot EVER completely get them out of my life. (Even if I were to get a divorce [I’m not] I could still have to see these people at my children’s events.) So I need to find another way to handle toxic in-laws.
Great post, Renée.
Yeah. The in-laws. But MAYBE you don’t have to attend EVERY event. Something to think about. Maybe your hubby (whom you are not divorcing) can attend a few events and invite his parents and you can go do something else. They’re happy because they got to see a grandkid do something and you got to go to the mall. Wait, I mean, you were slaving away in the kitchen. 😉
I always remember a quote from Eleanor Roosevelt, “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” Once I’d realized how true that statement was, I was able to cut toxic people out of my life and not feel terrible about it. I also realized that what is toxic to one person may not be to another. So mutual friends may not “get it” but that’s okay.
Great post!
So true. It does get hard when you have a group situation where not everyone gets along. And that is what was happening here. It bums out my husband but I had to draw the proverbial line in the sand and put my mental health above this other person’s. I love that quote from Eleanor. She would have been so cool to hang out with. 😉
Or not.
This is a really good, honest post. I have been through pretty much this exact thing, and I agree with everything you said. Sometimes we have to make the choice that’s right for us. And I smiled when I saw the words “toxic” and “emotional vampire” because I have two poems — one with each of those as titles. Suspicious, no? =) Thanks for sharing, Renée!
That’s either weird or it means we need to start at acquaintances and work from there! Because there is nothing wrong with that. Right? 😉
But seriously, I am kind of crushing on you already because that is suspicious!
It is so true, isn’t Renee, that it’s really all our choice! What a fantastic reminder. I could say so much more, but I won’t! Wonderful as always! And thanks for the intro to Nina’s fabulous website full of fabulous insight!!
Thanks KC. You should absolutely follow Nina. She is fabulous. But make sure that you are following her properly. For the love of Pete. Read her Twitter Etiquette Rules.
Best. Rules. Ever.
I think you got some good advice here. =) I can’t think of any toxic relationships that I have…but that’s because I tend to keep to myself more often than not.
I used to not hang out in the teacher’s lounge at work. Then, after a few years, I ventured out to the unknown to try to be a little more sociable. It was nice to get to know some of the other teachers…but the only downfall is that there’s a lot of complaining that goes on in there. Granted, they were complaining for good reason (we teach middle school–good times), but the complaining gets a little toxic.
This year, because I’m allowing students to come in for tutoring during lunch, I only get to eat in the staff room once in a while. It’s nice to see and talk to the other teachers, but it’s nice to also not hear all the complaining. I guess I can handle toxic in little doses. =)
TJ: I think men somehow are able to bypass a lot of this stuff. Someone waaaaay up the thread said: men do fight or flight, but women tend to stay in the drama. I think there is a lot of truth there. Guys who don’t get along knock each other out and then ignore each other for the rest of their lives. Women, we have these internal dialogues with ourselves.
It’s just as well that you stay out of the teacher’s lounge. In my experience no-one is lounging. Just bickering. Stay in your room and help the kids. They soooo need you.
There are plenty of miserable people in the world who are perfectly happy just the way they are. If they can’t be bothered/don’t want to change, then it certainly isn’t up to anyone else to work so hard to make them happy or please them. It seems to me that that is part of it, st least it was in my toxic friendship. All the effort to please was on my side. All the effort to keep the peace was on my side, all the compromise, all the give. I finally decided that I cared more about me than that relationship. It felt mean of me, because I’m not built that way, but I decided that I cared more about me than her. I have to live with me for the rest of my life. Many, many more people would need me, would eventually rely on me. It was important that I was the best me, the healthiest me I could be. If I kept forcing myself to take that emotional abuse, then I would not be able to maintain my emotional (or physical – these things take a toll on us physically, too) health.
We owe it to ourselves and the people who love and need us to take care of ourselves. I learned that toxic friend lesson when I was 14, so it was eady to let go and not be forced into too much contact again. I agree that total removal is best, but since you can’t do that (it sounds like you are family or in the same circles), I would love it if you were able to come up with some strategies that allow you to “let it roll off your back”. Things you can say that remind you that she is just a person, so who gives a shit what she says or thinks! Things that enable you to not care whether she likes you or not (remember that who gives a shit thing I just said?). To be quite frank, you seem to be a great person with plenty of friends, so who needs her? Your self esteem can’t be completely wrapped up in one woman’s opinion. You are too important for that. Too many other people need you for you to be dragged down by one negative nelly. How many other people miss your company when you don’t show up? This has turned into a rant (with swear words!, sorry), but I hate to see you hide your light because of her. Don’t invite her, but don’t let her run you off, either.
One more thing, but nicer: maybe you should pity her, too. She either never will see the truth of who she is… Or she sees it all too clearly. Either one is something to pity her for. I have also had experience with someone who treated me badly and I found out later that she was jealous of me. What for, I’ll never know. But people act out for strange reasons sometimes. Maybe knowing it is her insecurity that makes her act that way will make it easier to tolerate when you must be around her. You have to admit, you’ve got a lot for her to envy, in personality alone.
“All the effort to please was on my side… All the effort to keep the peace was on my side, all the compromise, all the give. I finally decided that I cared more about me than that relationship.”
That’s it 100%. I wish I had written those words. You are kind in implying that I have a lot going for me. That is generous of you. I have my own neuroses, believe me. That said, I wouldn’t say that I pity her – but I would prefer to say I have come to recognize and accept her imperfections. That’s about as far as I can go.
Lol, I don’t really pity my old ball and chain “friends”, either. But it was a nice idea. I can admit that I still harbor resentments. It’s sad, because that kind of takes something away from my life. But I’m only human. My stuff is all in the past, though, and it’s occuring to me that maybe I should be able to forgive them by now. I think, if I am completely honest, that I don’t want to forgive them. Does that make me a bad person? They are only human, too. So what does that add up to?
Sorry my last comment was so long. You’ve clearly hit a nerve here. Lots of long responses really…this seems to be a very common issue.
Why are you apologizing? These things suck! Why do you think I wrote about it? It hurts and it’s exhausting. Toxic people make us feel confused. I know people say “what’s in the past is over and done.” Except when there are patterns that keep getting repeated! I don’t think you have to forgive anyone except yourself. My Teri isn’t just one person. I have had lots of Teri’s. I’ve had to learn that not everyone is going to like me. If I make mistakes with people, I try to make amends, but if someone is consistently miserable to me and makes me feel badly about myself? Who needs it.
Great post. I’m a really intense boundary-setter and don’t waste my time doing so. I just announce it to them. The tricky part is realizing how they are toxic and why, and working all that out in your head. Once I know how someone is negatively affecting me I deal with it because I have NO room for extra nonsense in my life.
SASP:
I want to be you when I grow up.
I think it is amazing that you are able to establish your boundaries so clearly. Can you give me an example of what you actually might say to someone about something? I would like to eliminate as much extra nonsense in my life as possible.
I don’t know that you want to be me. It’s only because I’ve been through so much shit that I have zero tolerance. That’s pretty much what I’ve said before. “I just don’t have room to take your issues on as well” or “I feel like your negativity is affecting me and I don’t like it.” I try to be considerate but I keep it simple and direct to avoid confusion. Somehow, most people I’ve had these conversations with have just been grateful for the honesty even if that was the end of our relationship. Not saying it always goes super smoothly, I’m just a bluntly honest person about everything because I hate lies.
My best friend is very direct. I totally appreciate it when she tells it straight. If she can’t talk on the phone, she says, “Sweetie, I love you – but I can’t talk right now. Can I call you later.” No worries.
I WISH everyone was that kind of direct.
I have another friend who has told me that she “needed me to get to the point” (as I tend to be a story teller *ahem* — and while this used to sting a bit, I actually came to appreciate that she was telling me I want to hear what you are saying, but my time is precious.
AGAIN, I appreciate that kind of honesty.
But “You’re using the chicken knife on the vegetable cutting board. That’s disgusting!” That kind of honesty. So not appreciated. there is a way to approach things without making enemies, methinks.
Interrupting to say THANKS again to Renee for such a thought-provoking post. What an excellent conversation we’re having here.
So many smart people and so much good talk in one place!
It’s true. Sometimes the best way to deal is just not to deal.
We often recognize it when it’s a situation for someone else — “get out of the abusive relationship;” “stop giving your addicted sister money for drugs” — but it’s an entirely different animal when we’re the ones being drained of all our good energy. It can take someone else pointing it out to us for us to realize that it isn’t our problem unless we allow it to be. I just announced to HardWorker on the weekend that I’m not going to spend another lunch or dinner or whatever with my FIL’s wife. She’s miserable and she’s hard work, and after 17 years of trying I quit. I already opted out of last Christmas and was much happier for it.
It feels weird initially, but soooo much better for everyone! Right? And most of all you! Thanks for following me here! Or we’re you already following Nina? 😉 Our worlds are so interconnected!
I think I was already following you .. and I had “run into” Nina before but I don’t believe I was following her yet .. but I think I am now. I can barely keep track and/or keep up with all the good reads I’ve found in the last little while. I love the interconnectedness. That’s what should happen a bit more in this world. 🙂
I love when world’s collide on the blogosphere: like when I stumble onto someone new and fabulous and I’ll see, “Oh, wait. Darla from She’s a Maineiac is here.” It always makes me laugh.
The blogosphere feels so big, but for writers, it’s not. You know?
I do know. And I love how you can tell very quickly when a blog or page feels “like home.”
When I was at uni a girl joined our very close group of friends and proceeded to slowly tear the group apart while making everyone run around after her and feel sorry for her. She then accused one of group of some truly horrible and life destroying things and by that time we were so embroiled in her drama that it was hard to know which way was up. Thank goodness they was able to get away and get outside help. I ended up going to a therapist for a while to get my head around it all, who said that she had grown up in an environment of so much drama that to feel normal and to function she had to create it around her. After that I had the confidence to stop answering her calls, though she would call and text over and over again each getting more and more desperate, and tell her that I refuse to be part of her drama any more and to go away when she turned up on my doorstep, without letting her in. I came far to close to losing one of my very best friends in that mess and am very thankful that we finally got her out of our lives. It is scary how much damage one person is able to do.
It is amazing how these “black hole” people can suck everyone into their vortex of doom. And good for you (beloved Kelliefish) for extracting yourself from the drama. It’s hard to do when there is a group dynamic!
I have to get back over to your place!
” but it’s an entirely different animal when we’re the ones being drained of all our good energy. It can take someone else pointing it out to us for us to realize that it isn’t”our” problem unless we allow it to be.”
So very true. Sometimes I actually envision being asked for advice about a situation I’m struggling with. How would I counsel someone else? The clarity that emerges is astounding.
But the blogosphere safe and non-toxic? No way. My real life is far more loving and nurturing.
Love your writing style, Renee.
Also Renee, the bligosphere
You are right about the blogo, Ruchi. It is far from safe and non-toxic as I recently learned. I guess because I tend to stay to sites (and people) who I trust, I have shielded myself from a lot of negativity. I think I stumbled into a vat of it the other day when I wrote about the girl with the body issues. Yikes.
Thanks or reminding me that there cn be trouble found anywhere.
Fabulous post, Renee! This is a topic that fascinates me, and I loved reading your perspective and experience, especially the feedback from the therapist. My best friend has been saying for a decade that we, her other close girlfriends, have to stop feeling guilted into doing things, and keeping up friendships that are either toxic or simply just not compatible. Sometimes it seems so selfish, but I think your therapist was right, that we have to protect ourselves. You already know what happened with my brother last weekend (that’s really just the tip of the iceberg)! I am so done with that nonsense, and have already been planning ways to avoid him through the coming myriad of family birthdays.
I was so burnt-out this past month with family/friend events that I melted down, and my husband is still giving me a hard time that I don’t want to go to every g.d. thing. (And I just got a ‘Tastfully Simple’ invite from his aunt for next weekend, the first free weekend in two months. NOT going! Those things are as bad as showers, LOL, maybe worse since you’re pressured into buying stuff.)
But I wonder, do I require more ‘me’ time than the average bear? It’s the #1 reason I don’t have kids (for now, and the foreseeable future). Is there something wrong with me that I want an entire weekend to myself, to not HAVE to do anything?
If you just establish a policy: “I don’t attend parties where there is pressure to purchase something,” then you have established a boundary. Who can argue? But can you maintain this boundary. That is the question.
I was sad to see how much effort you had put into celebrating your brother and how he responded so hurtful,y. Julie, I know nothing of your relationship – but seriously, save your mad shopping skills for people who will appreciate them. You know who those folks are, I’m sure. For some reason, we always want to win over the ones who reject us. What is up with that? 😉 No matter what it is, it couldn’t have made you feel good — especially when you really did go to do much effort. I’m not suggesting this is a toxic relationship, but when it comes to gifts, you guys not speak the same love language. Obviously.
Remember, I’m waaaay older than you. You are still young and firm. You learn these things when your boobies start to sag. 😉
I never thought of that option
Me either. Who knew. And it totally works!
I have had people like this, real and virtual. People that don’t lift me but rather make me feel like I am trying to win their affection. I have to be very diligent with boundaries because I tend to be a weird paradox of being vulnerable online but not as much in the real world. I am glad you are doing what you need to do for you and you can only control what you can to do what’s best for you. I am relieved for you that you got rid of this emotional vampire:)
Nina, thanks for hosting Renee. Loving your series!
Have we had this conversation before? I swear we have! I had a friend in college who I loved dearly, and yet she made me feel miserable half the time. Like you, when I had her over as a guest in my home, I went out of my way to make special care packages of toiletries or tickets I paid for so she wasn’t spending extra money to see me. I stocked the cupboards full of the food she liked (she’s super picky). And I never asked for a cent. But a thank you? Never got one of those either. And everything had to be difficult. She’d arrive hours late, and then say she HAD to shower before we went anywhere. She’d demand to stay in my room when I made up a guest room and washed all the sheets. She’d keep me up snoring and tossing and turning all night. And when I brought this up to friends, I ended up being the bad guy. It’s still sad to me to have lost a friendship, but I know in the long run that it was for the best.
Toxic people always twist things to make you feel like the bad one. We’ve all been there.
I find as I am getting older (40!) and there are so many demands on my time, I feel very choosy about who I spend time with. I ask myself: Does this relationship feed me? How do I feel after I’m with this person? If the answer is “bad”, or “drained”, I do what I need to do to distance myself. I used to spend so much time trying to psychoanalyze the situation and figure out what I could do to make it different. Now I am much better about moving on. No hard feelings. Just taking care of myself.
Isn’t 40 grand? That is the beauty of growing older. Perspective!
A “former” friend/co-worker became toxic this past year & continues to be hot/cold depending on her mood. Although we had been friends for about 15 yrs. & worked together part of the time at our part-time job, we got closer after she had a bout of cancer & later surgery (of which her family & boyfriend were not around for her). She is someone who has been married at least 5 times (if not 6). She always has to have a man. She messed around on her last husband and she’s dead set on marrying the guy she’s with now. Thing is, the guy she has now is verbally/emotionally abusive & has succeeded in isolating her from her friends. He can’t keep her from her kids, but friends are easily pruned & we no longer do anything social together. We used to talk every week on the phone even if we worked together that week. Since last summer, she has been so incredibly moody & toxic to be around. She has been better since the first of the year, but I think that’s because I totally quit calling her. I also heard about her being hateful towards other co-workers for no good reason.
This former friend has been very narcissistic for years, but I think I refused to see it because I actually did more of the work in the friendship. When her behavior became too bad to ignore, I decided I needed to pull back from her. Even though I can’t do much about the work situation, thankfully, it’s only 1 night a week, 2 at the most. I keep it civil because I have to work with her, but she lives in denial about how she’s treated people & about how bad things are between her & her abusive guy. On some level, I’ve felt some sympathy for her with her guy treating her badly but after so long, and after so many attempts to talk to her about what was upsetting her, you eventually quit trying.
If she valued ME, she would not turn her back on our friendship regardless of who she was dating. I’ve had bad dating relationships in the past but never ever let a guy come between her & I. That would not have worked with me ever. She is desperate to keep a guy (even a bad one) and doesn’t value the people who care about her (which I’m sure are fewer now than a year ago). I’m slowly cultivating some new friendships & trying to be more social with people who are uplifting and are not angry most of the time. My friend was toxic, I was a people-pleaser, and I found myself as upset by this as a dating relationship gone bad. That was my cue to start the detachment process. It’s hard and it hurt a lot to admit that things had gotten to this point. You should not have to end friendships when you are in your 50’s but if they are toxic or treating you badly, you must take care of yourself.
“When her behavior became too bad to ignore, I decided I needed to pull back from her.”
Letting go of old friends is so painful. Honestly, it’s the hardest thing. I’m sooo sorry that you had to go through that.
Ah yes, a familiar story. It reminds me of what Julia Cameron writes about in The Artist’s Way, particularly what she calls “crazymakers,” who generate drama and undermine your success. Here’s the rub, though; what do you do when that person is a close family member? I fear I haven’t come up with the perfect answer yet.
When it’s a family member, I think you need to speak your mind even more so when they start becoming toxic. I think “friends” tend to hold their tongue a lot longer for fear of alienating them. If it’s a sibling or someone close, you should be able to have it out with them. If there is no resolution, then there is no law that says you have to spend time with them either – even if they are family. Thankfully, my only close relatives are people I love (but sometimes disagree with). We can argue about things but still love each other later. Friendships sometimes don’t have the glue necessary to stay together once it’s become so imbalanced for so long. I read a web site online about narcissistic people & my former friend fits so many of those aspects, but yet she buckles under when it comes to her boyfriend; doing whatever he wants in order to keep him. She would take out her frustration on others which doesn’t so well, but she is one who has to have a guy in her life. With so many marriages behind her, she is desperate like I’ve never honestly been before. I’ve been hurt a lot of times by men in the past, but I never took that hurt out on this friend (or any friends for that matter). You don’t cut off your support system when you need them the most unless your guy has convinced you that you don’t need anyone else but him. On some level, I have honestly become a lot more contented since I’m no longer playing the charade of being this woman’s closest friend. She has run off her friends and when she eventually (hopefully) figures out that her guy is a liar and a cheater, she will see that she has no one. That, my friends, is called karma.
I just saw this in your tweet. I am going through the same thing, but I am not having any problem with it. I feel so much better than I did when I was as thick as thieves with these people. Lucky for me the couple of them that tend to pick at me, (most likely jealousy) all band together so they are easy to avoid. Yet if I run into them, they would have no idea I feel this way. I don’t feel any animosity. It’s my choice who my friends are. I just tend to carry the loyalty thing a little too far and too long.
Luckily, I have lots of friends. Great post!
Susie, you aren’t struggling because you are smart.
Remember, I’m a twit. I’m slower. 😉
I am older than you and just figured it out in the last couple years. I’ve learned so much from my daughter. She must be an “old soul.” 🙂
Of course I know Renee and love her blog. This post is such perfect timing! About a year ago, I read a similar post on Life in the Married Lane about toxic friends and I responded saying I have a toxic friend I really need to distance myself from, which I did (for a while). But lately, that friend’s behaviors toward me have been awful and I was feeling like I needed another sign/post telling me to cut her off. It was just today I thought this. And here I am now reading this post. Thank you, Renee and Nina!
Hi Leah!
Did Rivki write about this topic? I’ll have to go back and search for it. (She is wise!) I’m sorry you have been having friendship stuff. It’s painful. I know. Be gentle with yourself. Remember, you probably aren’t even part of the drama. Maybe just take a step back quietly. Good luck. Happy spring to you!
For me personally, as I get older, I feel much less tolerance for that kind of behavior. So rather than back off from Teri, I’m pretty sure I’d TELL HER OFF (I know, not what your therapist would recommend). My filters grown thinner and thinner every day as I approach 40 :-). The unfair thing is that YOU are the one who has to go into hiding because of HER behavior. SO not right. But, in the end, it’s so true: you are reducing stress and removing the stressor so that you can lead a healthier life. So it makes complete sense to deal only with the way YOU feel. And if you feel better staying away, then I’d say you found a winning solution. I wonder if Teri even knows she’s doing it or GETS that you’ve adopted this new strategy because of her? My bet: no.
I have found that toxic people have a way of twisting circumstances so they look like the victims. If you told off toxic Teri, she would cry and make you look (and feel) like the bad one. She would make you question yourself and everything about you.
You have to handle things the way you see fit. Man, would I love to watch someone tell off my toxic Teri. 😉
I love this blog. So many good comments here & it’s quite healing to know that it’s not only me who has dealt with toxic people in their life. I think it’s very hard when the toxic friend was once someone you cared a lot about & never dreamed they’d turn out this way. I honestly believe that 90% of my toxic friend’s issue is her abusive guy but I know that she’s had a streak of selfishness in her because I had seen that years ago–it just had not been directed at me in such a hurtful way until recent months. It also helps to know that, most generally, these toxic people are not only toxic to us but to other people. It was the realization that my toxic friend was turning on others (some she was also friends with but not nearly as close as she’d been with me) that really made my mind turn the corner in how I viewed her.
I think this toxic friend felt like “I” would always be there & act like things were OK (always forgiving) later but withdrawing is really the best way because if you get into an argument, these toxic people have a way of turning the tables and making you the enemy regardless of what they have done. I feel like my toxic friend would be that way if I tried to talk to her again. I did try talking to her (not in an accusing way at all back last fall & it didn’t work). She preferred to pretend that things were fine in her life & wanted everyone else to think so as well. But her venom spewed out at various times later (always when she was upset w/her guy). So, she doesn’t think enough of herself to get out of an abusive relationship.
I think enough of myself (finally) that I don’t need HER abusive friendship any longer. Even if this guy was out of her life, I doubt that I could really forgive her & go on w/our friendship. She did too much damage & I will never trust her again. That’s really HER loss, but eventually maybe she’ll figure that out & if she doesn’t, then she will still be a lonely woman with 5-6 bad marriages & many more bad relationships in her past. She’s making her own karma and that’s what I have to keep in mind here.
Another way of looking at it – which preserves your sense of obligation – is that there are competing demands on you and your time. If you choose Toxic Teri, you’re choosing to pay the opportunity cost of not doing other good, cool, enjoyable or necessary stuff you could do instead. That list includes sleeping – which is good for you and your family. Surely that puts sleeping and just about everything above TT on the list.
Oh – one more thing – don’t backslide just because you haven’t heard anything awful about her lately – or even if she appears to have improved. C’mon – you’ve given her years. Time to make room for some other people.
I agree that simply having no time to be with toxic people is the key to making a new life because, in some ways, it’s a “death” of a friendship that you’re going through. The person you once knew and cared about (my friend was like an older sister to me), it’s very hard to accept that someone has changed so drastically. Once you are around more healthy & centered people, the toxic ones look even worse than they did before (but in a way that lets you heal much easier). I’ve already experienced that some in my own situation. There are not as many outlets to talk about this kind of grief, although most everyone has been hurt by a dating relationship gone bad.
So true! Choosing to be with healthy people is like choosing to eat more healthily; once you start you really don’t want to eat the 2 pound bacon burger with cheese and fries. You really do prefer the chicken breast.
Paul:
Such a good point! Backsliding is a no no! Leopards don’t change their spots. It has taken me years of toxic dancing with Teri to finally cut things. It’s been over for a long time now, and it feels so good. But — yes — at the beginning, there was lots of mistake making. Each person figures these things out in his or her own time. Thanks for following me here!
When it comes to removing toxic friends I don’t have a problem, but when it comes to removing toxic in.laws I’m screwed! My husband works for his parents, and as much as we would like to (because they don’t pay him enough) he can’t just quit his job & move away. I’m tired of the abuse & just like above if we confront them it gets turned back on us w/ the eventual tears like we are the mean ones. Help!!
That is a toughy. BUT maybe you can keep interactions at work and minimize outside contact a little. I know it probably sounds unthinkable, but even cutting back a little can help a lot. And you are not wrong in calling it abuse. It really can be. Good luck to you, Michael.
I usually cut them out of my life or rather, they somehow organically weed themselves out. But when I do have to be around toxic people, I’ve now finally found the ability to not take their comments or actions personally. Literally let their words pass right through me and not affect me one bit. It’s been a long road to that point but that’s one of my best weapons against those kinds of people now. Great post!
I’ve been working on that, but sometimes I still get sucked in. You are more highly evolved than I am! 🙂
Yes, I still have more work to do on myself with not letting the former friend get to me. In recent weeks (when I’ve seen her at work, which is now the only time I have to see her), she’s pretty quiet. She will talk some and she no longer acts angry, but she does act very unhappy & is still very withdrawn. I don’t think her guy is likely treating her any better (with what little she has said about him) but someone who has 5-6 failed marriages behind them has a mind-set that I simply cannot relate to. I never married any of the guys I dated and I would think there would be a point where someone would mature & grow & learn what a good relationship was and what a bad one was.
A mature person would seek some counseling when they found themselves unhappy as long as this ex-friend has been. I did try to get her to talk to a counselor back last summer but I’m sure she never went. She keeps a lot of stuff inside. I think when she was in the hateful phase towards me & other co-workers, her anger for her guy would come out at us instead of him. Now, she just seems totally beat down which is unfortunate but she has also enabled and accepted whatever treatment he dished out. Maybe she’s aware she’s given up her friends for him and maybe she is really clueless. However, I look at her & see so much sadness and THAT also can affect me in a negative way. It’s not as bad as the hateful attitude but I guess a part of me still mourns the friendship we used to have.
Your ex-friend sounds like she has a lot of unresolved issues. You can’t make them your own, especially if they are starting to interfere with your own quality of life. It’s hard to mourn a friendship — especially when you have to see that person on a regular basis.
Sigh.
I had one like this, too. It was pretty rotten. Wishing you peace of mind. Who knows? Maybe one day she’ll come back to you. Until then, methinks you have to let her figure out her own shizzy.
Good for you, Renee. Life is too precious and short to spend with people who seem to think they have the right to be rude and disrespectful whenever the fancy strikes them. It’s incredibly sad, but sometimes we just have to walk away.
Just so you know, at around forty, you’ll be visited by the Eff-It Fairy. The Eff-It Fairy reminds us who we were before we gave a damn about what anyone else thought of us. She helps us to say, “Eff it!” when we deal with people like the woman you are describing. She’s one of my best friends. 🙂
Piper, I’m almost 45. I’ve met the Eff-It Fairy. She effing rocks. Thanks for your support. Between you and the fairy, I’m feeling pretty covered. 🙂
I have to see this former friend tonight at work. Sad that I dread working w/her, EVEN if she acts OK. That is how much she’s damaged our friendship–it’s very sad when close friends are no longer close and it’s really only one person’s fault. In this case, I can’t take the blame because I really stuck by her through thick & thin. She’s not remembering that apparently. I have her b-day card ready to be mailed later this week. I’m signing it with my name only & not mentioning doing lunch or dinner. That way, it only costs me 45 cents to mail and I will have acknowledged her b-day without making any other kind of commitment. She did too little too late for mine last year.
Today is my former friends’ b-day and I mailed her a generic type happy birthday card & signed my name only (no love or friendship stuff added to this one) & also found a full copy of the serenity prayer that I’d been looking for. It was in the form of a bookmark, so I found some card stock & printed it on a color printer & it came out looking store bought. I don’t know that the prayer will mean a lot to her or if she’ll figure out that the card (with no mention of dinner or lunch out) is a message in itself. I did what I felt like I should do in regards to her b-day. Completely ignoring it did not seem like the best option nor did acting like everything was hunky-dory between us by telling her we’d do a meal out together. Remember she did nothing for mine until a month went by & then invited 5-6 other people to join us. I wanted to end the obligation on either of our parts. This way, even if I don’t get a card from her on my b-day, I won’t feel too bad. Sometimes we can have high expectations and sometimes we simply expect people to treat us well if we’ve treated them likewise. When it doesn’t happen that way, it’s time to CHANGE some things. I’m glad I’m making changes and am continuing to let go of this person who hurt me so badly. I went walking with my neighbor friend last night. It’s refreshing to be around someone who does not drag me down and who is not angry & unhappy most of the time.
I think you did the right thing. And what you said in the end here is the MOST important. As you surround yourself with positive people who make you feel good (and you make feel good) then the pain of the former friendship will dull. I don’t think we ever forget former friends, but you’ll be able to move forward. I’ve been there.
I’ve seen this “friend” at work a couple times since I last posted & she got the card & thanked me for it. She is acting much better now, although I have not forgotten her past behavior. It’s still hard because a part of me still cares yet knows things will never be really healed – at least not while she’s with the guy she has now. Her controlling guy’s dad just passed away & I was trying to figure out what I should do about that as I had met his Dad a few times but did not know him well. I went by the funeral home on my lunch hour & signed the book & did the viewing when no one was around. I saw that several other names were in the book so apparently others did the same thing. I’m calling it good. That way, I don’t have to see the jerk of a boyfriend & don’t have to deal with it while at the same time paid my respects in case anyone asked. I sometimes feel like my old friend will eventually see the reality with her guy & other times, I don’t think things will change. In the meantime, I’m still doing things with other people, thankfully have not worked with her much in recent weeks but when I did work with her, things were a lot better between us. Time will tell; I just have to keep moving along in life regardless of what happens w/her.
Stick with the other people. 😉
This is good advice for those of us that are trying to deal with people in organizations, too. I was recently elected to be president of our local women’s political club and we have a nasty group who love to complain about everything. I have been in this position working my butt off for about three months and taking unspeakable abuse. Thanks for your blog. This just gives me the push I need to shut the door…
Hi mmerriner:
Organizations can be tough with so many strong personalities. I remember attending a PTSA meeting and quickly realizing how cliquey it was — and unwelcoming. I worked hard on a large project once to fulfill an obligation and then I was outta there. There are plenty of places that would love to have you that do not have wonky dynamics that make you miserable. I wish you luck in extricating yourself from this stuff.
As an update, this toxic friend & I were working together the other night. She brought up an incident that happened between her & another co-worker whom she also considers a friend but whom she’s also been nasty to. This other friend/co-worker called toxic friend on her attitude. Toxic friend told me that co-worker took wrong what she said & that they were not as close anymore. I took that opportunity to tell this toxic friend that SHE & I (meaning her) were not as close either but I believed it was due to her guy not wanting her to spend time with her friends much anymore. She denied that being true, but I told her I believed it WAS true & recited back to her what she had once said about this controlling man who was “last on her list” after her kids, friends & other people. I said it almost verbatim to what she had said months ago. I also told her that maintaining a friendship w/her had proven to be very hard and that for most of the last year, I felt like she did not want me around nor even act like she cared about me anymore. She was silent but I could tell she was listening. She said something about her working every day & that she did not spend as much time with her guy as people thought. I told her that I worked almost every day as well. It’s not about work schedules. It’s about staying connected in the midst of work schedules or issues in life. I told her that she had been so self-absorbed (and maybe with good reason) but after a while, people simply quit trying. This indicated that it wasn’t just myself who had quit but also this other co-worker who snapped back at her that one night in Dec. I let this toxic friend know that it was SHE who had pushed people away instead of it being the other way around. I told her that was all I had to say about it and she said OK. I was helping her do work in her area but went back to my own area & she later came over to help me. So, for right now, things seem to be better between us but I’m not sure how much this “talk” did to change things. I know that the trust is not there anymore–not for me anyway. I had told her that she was free to call me but I made it clear why I wasn’t calling her anymore because I didn’t feel valued anymore. Maybe she’ll figure it out or maybe she won’t. She’s still with the controlling guy though. Until she decides to end things w/him, I don’t look for major changes.
Just know you are not alone. Look how many people have had issues with toxic people! Hopefully, it helped to vent. Now, onto the people who deserve your energy.
Holidays are usually the times when I feel worse about this former friend as I sometimes feel more of the void that is left from not socializing with her outside of work. I ran into a gal who got married earlier in the year & is a friend of this former friend of mine. Apparently, this married woman & her hubby do some social things with my former friend & her controlling boyfriend. Maybe it’s because I’m single that I’m a threat to my former friend? That is what a counselor person suggested. I’m not into the bar scene & not into trying to troll bars/clubs for men so that isn’t the issue. Maybe it’s because I could have some influence over her (in his mind anyway). I think what’s also still bugging me is that even after that little conversation about why people are not close to her anymore, she has never really owned her responsibility in all of this. I’m sure she knows things are not like they used to be, but she does not take the blame for where things are. To be honest, I’m NOT to blame. I did all I could to salvage the friendship and she disrespected me even though I was a loyal friend for many years. The work environment is what still bothers me greatly–that I have to see her at all there. I really believe I could let this all go more easily if we did not work together. That is very tough sometimes–not knowing how someone is going to act. However, she recently told a couple of us that she was really mad at this guy she’s with – same one she’s planning on moving in with so it should be interesting. She’s making her own bed.