Nina: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of dear Nina conversations about friendship. I’m your host Nina Batson. Today I have three guests to address a friendship issue. I get many emails about from listeners and readers in their forties, fifties. Who feels stuck in a rut with their friendships. People who feel they want to make new friends, but they say it’s too late or it’s too hard.

It’s too intimidating. And they just don’t know where to start. I believe it’s never too late to make new friends, which is why I invited Carolyn, Kristin and Michelle, the host of the pop culture preservation society podcast to tell us how they became good friends and only the last handful of years.

What these new friendships have meant to them in a new stage of life and what advice they have for others who want to bring new people into their orbits. Before I let them say hi and tell us their story though. I want all my listeners to know that the pop culture preservation [00:01:00] society is a podcast dedicated to preserving the pop culture nuggets of our gen X childhoods.

Carolyn Christina, Michelle. Do deep dives into topics such as Barry Manilow tiger beat the blue lagoon, the love boat, solid gold, Saturday night fever, and more. They do extensive research and their friendship really shines through on the podcast. And I know them, I know them. We all live in Minneapolis.

And the fact that I know them, I think might factor into their friendship story. I expect it to, if not, I’m going to demand some credit and I’m going to let you hear directly from them. So hi ladies. So I’ve never done an interview. You guys with three people. So this is going to be new, but I know it’s something you’re used to because you have really cool guests on your podcast.

And so you’re used to having several people on your screen. So where I want to start is tell me what it was like meeting new people, how you met. And I know you guys have probably thought about how you want to tell your story. So I’m just going to hand it. [00:02:00]

Kristin: Well, I think I’ve cracked the code. Let’s just get to the end of the podcast right now.

I think I cracked the code because my friendship with Carolyn and Michelle is a good example of how finding important people in your fifties differs from. What it’s like in your teens and your twenties and maybe even your thirties, it seems like when you’re in your teens and your twenties, so much of finding friends is dependent on fun or it circulates around fun.

It’s around social events, socializing. You find people who maybe have the same kind of sense of humor. You laugh over the same things. You like to do the same things and go to the same places. But when you’re in your fifties, that changes dramatically. I can’t go to a party anymore and have a conversation with somebody and go, oh, I really vibed on her.

I’m going to ask her out for coffee. That doesn’t happen. It’s too loud. I’m irritated. I want to go home. I want to watch TV in my jammies.

Nina: We talk about things being too loud, noise

Kristin: close to somebody when it’s too loud, what happens in your fifties? At least this is what has happened. [00:03:00] In my experience is that you find important people by doing things that are important to you and you find people who care about something.

So the perfect example is the writing group that Nina started.

Nina: I didn’t even mention in the intro cause I was hoping you would pat me on the back.

Michelle: Yes.

Kristin: Because what happened with that writing group is, and these guys can speak for themselves. I joined that writing group. Not to find people not to make friends, but to do something important for myself.

And in that writing group, we share things. We share our writing. It gets very personal, very fast, and you get very close to people. And so our podcast grew out of that writing group. That’s that was the foundation of it because we already knew each other’s personal lives, whether or not we had done anything outside of writing group, we had already cried in front of you.

Essentially that has been replicated in other parts of my life. It’s when I’ve joined something. Here’s another good example. At [00:04:00] my kids’ school, there were budget cuts and they closed the library. And so a group of parents were like, this is not acceptable. And over five years time, some outraged people came together and created a library from scratch.

And those people are now really important part of my circle. And I didn’t find them until I was like 48 years.

Nina: That’s so inspiring and it’s yes, you have. If you care about something with the same people, it would make sense that it would bridge to a friendship. I do want to stop for a moment to say that the writing group that Kristin is referring to is how has that modern well, and the groups were co-founded with Julie Burton.

We created these writing groups together, and when we create. We also were new friends. So that’s kinda, it’s like a friendship story that he gets our friendships, or we had really just met and been introduced because we were both writers. We both had four kids and we’re about 10 years apart. We became close and she came up with this idea that you want to start writing groups.

And we did, and we didn’t know if it would just be a one-time thing. We created something that lasted about eight weeks and then a lot of the people signed up again and. [00:05:00] These are like, okay, let’s do another, a late. They kept the same people kept signing up. So we started a second day for more people to come.

And people from that group have become friends too. And well, so let’s hear a little more. So you met Michelle and Carolyn by signing up for something that you were doing really for you. It wasn’t necessarily to make friends was

Kristin: the point that I’m really trying to make is that this was something very meaningful to me.

It was just not. This was something that was very important to me and the other people who showed up it was important to them. So it’s kind of like this mentality of being in the trenches together. And that’s where my relationships are growing from right now is people that I meet in the trenches, not in a social situation.

Nina: Yeah. That makes sense.

Carolyn: And I want to. You know, my forties and fifties, one of the gifts of aging, so to speak is my willingness to take some chances and to step outside of my comfort zone and do things that might make me feel a little uncomfortable at first. But I kind of have a little bit more of motivation to do them.

And so when I turned 50, [00:06:00] I went to a writer’s retreat in California and I didn’t know a soul and it was a pretty powerful experience. Uh, fast forward a few months later after I’m home, I find out about the writing group that we were just talking about and I think. I’m going to go. I don’t know anyone in this group, but I love to write, obviously they do too.

That is something I did know. And so I, I went and life has never been the same. You guys, um, to echo what Kristen said yes. When you follow your heart. I mean, this thing that. Speaking to you saying, do this and you take that chance, which again, I think is a gift that has come to me as I’ve gotten into my forties and fifties.

And I take these chances and lo and behold, we’re sitting here, the three of us and we have a podcast. So it’s, um, taking those chances has been a big part of why I’m here and why these women are

Nina: my friends. Carolyn, how far into our group did you come in? I know Michelle came in last. [00:07:00] It was already functioning when you signed up.

So that’s hard too. That takes them. Take some. Without

Carolyn: a doubt. Yeah. I turned 50 and 2015. Right. So, um, it would have been maybe 2016 is when I joined the group. So I’m not sure. What did you guys start in? 2015. Think yeah.

Nina: All of 2015. So you weren’t too far behind? No,

Carolyn: but still that’s intimidating. You don’t know.

Everybody knows the ropes. They know each other. I mean, I remember thinking. Oh my gosh, how am I going to remember everyone’s names? And thank goodness. In the beginning, we did have a little name things that you had. Um, but I’d write down like cute hair. Chris likes, you know, something she said in the group that, um, I said something about Earl Hamner from the Waltons and Kristen’s eyes just lit up and she was like, you know who it is.

So do I,

Kristin: and it’s like just the two of us.

Carolyn: Creator of the Waltons and yeah. So those kinds of [00:08:00] moments led to

Nina: this. It is hard to believe that there was a time when people didn’t know each other’s names. And I remember I used to have everybody bring their name tag thing in, but then people would forget them.

So finally, and this is so typical of me, right? Finally, I was like, no, you leave them here. I will bring them every, that is typical.

Michelle: And I’m going to, actually, this is fitting that I’m going third and piggybacking on what Kristin and Carolyn said, because I did take a really big chance for me to join this very established writing group three years ago in March.

I can’t believe it’s only been three years ago. You guys, I feel like I’ve known you guys for so long, but despite some very ingrained new girl insecurities that I’d had for my whole life, I went to nine schools in 12 years as a child. And when I joined the writing. I had no idea. It was such an established group.

In fact, I can assure you had, I known I never, ever would have come, but I did. And I quickly learned right away that [00:09:00] everybody had been friends for like three at the time, I think three or four years, everybody knew each other’s names. Carolyn, I

Nina: know more name tags. I don’t think

Michelle: I was making the same types of lists in my notebook.

And then I can’t believe I came back a second time. And when I did, everybody was in a different. And I, when I was like, oh man, I had, I had like written down everybody’s names around, you know, in a little, a little table drawing on my notebook. I felt so out of place, I was 50 years old, just 50. I was so out of place and so uncomfortable, I plan to quit every week, but I didn’t.

And why didn’t I quit? Why. The women were so lovely and kind and incredibly motivating, um, with what they were accomplishing that I really felt like I needed, I had a need to surround myself with that, you know, that energy basically. And two, I felt an intrinsically personal connection with some of the people I had immediately struck up kind of a karma like friendship with Carolyn, [00:10:00] like bef like on day one, and very quickly felt a definite connection to Kristin, just from listening to her read and just from the conversations like she and Carolyn were having, or she and other people were having.

But I was really hesitant to act on that one. Kristen, I think you scared me. Nina scared. I’ve told me that before. And, um, I remember, oh yeah, I love Nina so much, but man Nina, that first, like those few few months, I was like, it was like the scary teacher,

Nina: everyone in

Michelle: line, but you do, you do. Um, but the thing is you guys is, I knew these were my people.

I just didn’t know how to break in still. And it’s uncomfortable. It is so uncomfortable for about a year. I mean, I’m just talking a year. It was uncomfortable. I was daring myself to go back, but I did. I kept going back. I kept coming back and I am so, so grateful to myself for that because now not only do I have this podcast and this incredible friendship with Carolyn and Kristin, I have other great [00:11:00] friendships in the writing group.

So. I, I can’t tell you how many times. I’m thankful for all of the friends that I have there, the support that we have and it all, it, it all comes down to taking a chance and taking a risk and being uncomfortable. Um, and I think that’s something that is hard to do no matter how old you are. But I do think that as we get older, we kind of have that mentality of I’m not going to really care what people think.

You know, I’m going to be more open to things and it’s still hard and it’s still scary, but I think. Well,

Nina: good segue to. Kind of the next piece that takes some courage. There’s the showing up to the thing, especially in the case of Carolyn at first and the Michelle, the thing that has already been ongoing and now people are getting to know each other and Kristen, to some courage to what is this thing?

I mean, you were there like the very first day before it wasn’t even, we talk about it. Like that’s this special, magical. Wasn’t special, magical on day one, it got over time. And so you were there to help make it special and magical, but then there’s [00:12:00] liking someone and there’s seeing them outside of class, that those are two separate things coming every week in a place where you there’s already on the schedule.

Nobody had to make the plan like Julie and I made the plan. We decided when you guys were coming to get together, right. And we would take these breaks and then we would sign up for a new session. And you always kind of know that you’re going to see these people. It’s taking it outside of the classroom, which turns it into casual, you know, nice friends, people you really like to see writing friends, we call each other probably.

How do you get to that next step? I mean, my entire catalog of podcasts is really about this question, but I’d love to hear, I’d love to hear individual stories. So who made the first move I want,

Kristin: before we talking about the first move, I want to challenge you a little bit on that, taking it to the next level or taking it outside of class.

There are plenty of people in the writing group that I don’t see outside of class. I still consider them very close friends of mine because I know they have my back

Nina: and we had an intimate conversation

Kristin: very much, very much. And so I want to encourage people [00:13:00] that if you join something and you do something that’s important to you, you can consider those times together.

When you’re in the trenches as your friendship, you can keep it there. If you want to. If there are some people that will want to do. Further or do social things or do other things together. But there are many people in that group that I’m like, we are friends because I see you every Thursday and I cherish our time together.

Nina: Yeah. I don’t consider that a challenge really just cause, you know, I I’m like the first to defend. Eva. Well, you’re talking about a real friendship and it is, but even if it weren’t even if it was like just a really nice acquaintanceship, I’m all about that too. I think there’s an important place in life and it’s a huge part of what we all missed in COVID.

Now we all still were together on zoom, which is great. But for people who didn’t have a class that could be on zoom, like, gosh, do people miss those relationships? Yeah. But yeah, back to this particular friendship that did come outside the classroom.

Kristin: Caroline, do you want to tell her about our first. Yes, I,

Carolyn: because of the Earl Hamner comment, I think I knew that Kristin and I [00:14:00] shared some affinity to, um, some of the fun things that were on TV or on the radio in the seventies.

And when we heard. That Mary Tyler Moore had passed away. That was a really emotional time here, obviously in Minneapolis for many reasons. And also for those of us who grew up with that as a staple of our weekend television watching with our families and Mary obviously means a lot to the three of us.

One of the radio stations was doing a gathering where everyone was going to do the hat toss. And we were going to sing the Mary Tyler Moore song. It was supposed to be outside. Weather was bad. It was in the IDs building. And I said to Kristin, like, I think we should go. And I mean, that was, I’d never seen her outside of a writer’s group, but I just knew already that we have.

Shared love of Mary and this pop culture moment. So indeed we went and, oh my gosh, you guys, there is nothing like singing that song together and then tossing your hat in the [00:15:00] air. It was emotional. And I shared it with Kristen. So it just like elevated that friendship.

Kristin: This was a really big jump. And I wanna, I want piggyback on the Mary Tyler Moore thing, because when we do this thing outside of class, this was not a social.

This was a meaningful event to both of us. Mary Tyler Moore had died and we were sad. And so, you know, she stuck her neck and she was like, do you want to be sad together? And we did. It was really emotional. So then a short time later, I was, I noticed this little embarrassing. This is not embarrassing. It’s, I’m just thinking of the people out there who don’t live in our world.

So I saw that my first boyfriend, Sean Cassidy was going to having a concert for the first time since 1979 at a tiny winery in California. And I just, this thing came over me. I need to go. This is important. This is really important. And so I took that information to writing group because a lot of my writing has to do with childhood crushes or, or these popular culture, things that Caroline was talking about.

And so [00:16:00] I brought this to my writing group and I said, you know, there’s anybody out there wants to go with.

Nina: Were you planning to go alone? Oh, hell yeah. That’s so cool. You were already going to go alone, but you’ve said it in class, like, yes, this

Kristin: wasn’t again, not a social event. This was something that was meaningful.

And I put the invitation out there because I would like to go with somebody else, but I never, in a million years imagined that anyone would say yes and Carolyn. I’m going with you love it. And so now we’re traveling together and we’re sharing a hotel room together and driving to unknown places. This is not like downtown LA, where you’re going to get an Uber.

We had to rent a car and drive to some little town in central California. Like where the hell are we? Right?

Carolyn: It was, um, yeah, it was a big jump. It’s like, we really took it to the next level. There is no better way to be. Close friends with someone than to share a hotel room and bathroom,

Michelle: all of that. [00:17:00] And meanwhile, I’m, this is only a month after I’ve started writing groups.

So I’m still in that. I’m not coming back. I’m feeling very uncomfortable. Like I said, I had already clicked with Carolyn. I knew we had this big fan girling thing in common and this big love of the things from our childhood and entertainment, you know, weekly TV shows and award shows and Disney. And I mean, we had just struck up this great friendship.

In a very short time. Contained it writing group. You know, I was excited to see Carolyn when I’d go back to writing group, because I hadn’t had that type of a conversation with anyone else. And then, you know, three, four weeks in Kristen is saying, who wants to go see Sean Cassidy? And I pretty much had to sit on my hands.

It’s like Michelle, why didn’t you raise your hand and say, I’ll go and take that chance. I think I was still, so I was still spinning from the chance I had taken just to be sitting in that seat and writing group that there was, you know, again, my new girl insecurities, there was no way I was going to put myself out there even further and say, I’ll travel across the country with you too.

Cause my first thought was that they would look at me. [00:18:00] Oh, oh, that new girl is going to come. You know,

Nina: that’s such a natural feeling. I’m glad you’re sharing it.

Michelle: I understand, you know, through years of age and maturity and therapy, that, that to me, that’s that they wouldn’t have stopped that probably, or.

That is something then that I’m now starting to see. Oh, there’s some people in here that I do have a deeper, like connection with. Cause you know, like Kristen, when you started this story and said, I’m so embarrassed, but this is the world we live in, which is this world. The three of us have now created.

It was that wasn’t embarrassing at all. When I heard you say it, I was one of the people who was jumping, wanting to jump and say, I’ll go to I’ll sleep on the floor. All right. In the trunk, you know, I can go over that summer. Carolyn and I might, maybe we met for lunch. I remember then, um, was it that summer that we went and saw Dax?

You guys. Oh, I find thanks. So Carolyn, for those relistening Carolyn’s, um, boyfriend, her number one hall passes Dax Shepard, and he was doing his armchair expert tour and he was [00:19:00] coming to Minneapolis and Carolyn and I had enough of a friendship now that she knew that I was going to be all over this. So I remember you texted me, would you want to go, let’s get a group together.

And I jumped on the. Thing. I got the tickets first and I was just so excited to be part of this group, you know, like to be part of this. And we went and that’s when I sat next to Nina, we were all went to dinner first. And that was the first time that I was like, oh my God, she’s not scary at all. She,

like, I left like really like Nina, like that was, I had such a great conversation with her and she wasn’t scaring me at all. I respected you. It was like an intimidation. You are in charge of that rank them. You keep us all on our two minutes. So it was more like the teacher, you respect, but you kind of are intimidated by, but yeah.

So then the Dax Shepard thing happened, I think that was it that had to have been before 2020 that had to have been. Yeah. Yeah. And then once I got really comfortable in writing group, everything shut down and I, we went on. [00:20:00]

Nina: And this is where the podcast is born, right? Like it’s, COVID times everyone’s stuck at home.

We’re connecting on zoom. What exactly was the seed to go from? You guys have a lot of cultural references that you all like to actually creating a project around

Kristin: it because Carolyn and I had taken this crazy trip to Shaun Cassidy and came back and like basically did a book report on it for the group.

Michelle got a job, writing a piece about fan girling after 50. So who do you think she’s going to call? She’s going to call the people who jumped on a plane to go see Sean Cassidy.

Michelle: Perfect. I wanted some quotes for my article to just make it a little bit more rich. And so I thought, you know, I’m going to call Carolina Chrisman zoom.

This was in August of 2020. I’m going to zoom with Carolyn and Kristin just to pick their brains and get some good sound bites, basically, you know, do you call them sound bites when it’s in an article? I don’t know, but. That conversation took a life, took on a life of its own. We zoomed for maybe two hours and it, did we even talk about the article?

I don’t know. We [00:21:00] just quickly got into talking about the crushes tiger beat our childhoods. It went from then to toys. We played with shows. We watched things we loved. We had a really, really great conversation. It was.

Kristin: And all of those things are connected to us really, really personally. So it’s not just that we’re pop culture fiends it’s that there’s a nostalgia within us that sort of connects us to our younger selves and that younger self relates to who we are now, especially as 50 year old women, we’re much more in touch with our younger selves now than we were in our thirties, which is really very freeing.

And so these conversations became very personal, very fast. It’s not just like, don’t you love Mary Tyler Moore. It relates to our families and our siblings and how, and who we became today. And so I always say that the three of us became familial super fast because it’s a, it’s a, it’s a concentrated version of our writing group where you reveal yourself on a daily basis.

And that’s how you become close.

Nina: Yeah, the [00:22:00] vulnerability right away. Right.

Carolyn: And being seen. I think that was one of the neat things about that conversation and everything that’s come since then. And I was so invigorated and excited at the end of that conversation. I said, you guys, we’re going to start a podcast.

And I don’t even care if anyone listens like that. I was having so much fun. I’m just learning so much. And that was kind of a little bit of the seed that I planted.

Nina: Another friendship question I have for the three of you in terms of becoming friends a little later in life, is how do you find it has fit like these new friendships and not even just with each other, but maybe once you have had with other people too.

How does it mesh with the friends you already have with your spouses? Have you met each other’s kids? Like, let’s talk about that a little bit. Just how it fits into the rest of your life, because sometimes that is. And the impediment to new friendship is it can get sort of stuck as a side thing that doesn’t get integrated.

It doesn’t have to get integrated, but yes, there’s a

Kristin: little side thing. I mean, [00:23:00] that’s another thing where I don’t necessarily, I have my friends from the library. I have my friends from college. I have my friends in the neighborhood. I have my friends in writing group. I have my friends in my podcast and I.

Don’t we, because, because these aren’t social things, because these are all things that are very personal to me. There’s not a lot of mixing. There’s no requirement for it to be mixing. Now, if I had a, you know, a big birthday party and everyone’s coming to celebrate me or hello, book, launch party, all those people would come together and they would all have a wonderful time and they would all love each other because they all love.

But that being said, no, I don’t mix them. All of them are personal in and of themselves. Even our husbands, our husbands have met. We’ve met our children. We love, you know, we love each other’s children. We love hearing stories about each other’s children, but we are, I said yesterday, this is my social. When I see these guys on zoom or in person, whether we’re planning something, creating something, working on something that is my social life.

And so I don’t need to take it anywhere else. [00:24:00] There are no boundaries around it by any means, but that it flourishes where it is. And I love it the way it is.

Michelle: And, and to your point too, Kristin, my. It’s a separate thing. I do have other friends though. Um, in other states that I’ve had for decades that listened to the podcast and that have said to me, I want to, I want to like, come sit in.

I want to be friends with all of you. Like they’ve known me for decades, but now they feel like they know Kristen and Carolyn either if that’s just because of how we present ourselves on the podcast or because they’ve known me. And so by association, they feel like they know Kristen and Carolyn who on the podcast sound like they know, you know, so it’s, I think it’s.

It’s all inclusive. It’s all are welcome here. It just happens to be the way that we all over our lives. Now, everything is kept kind of separately.

Nina: One final question that kind of relates to something Michelle just said about friends being interested in the podcast. I’m just always curious about that, which is a little separate from the three of you becoming good friends, but do your other friends have interest in your pack?

As I can [00:25:00] ask myself the same question by the way, and I have strong feelings and I’ve written things about being careful to not expect. No friends to get on board with like every project you have going on, but what has the response been?

Carolyn: I think the three of us two had a little, um, least I did a trepidation of like, oh, please listen.

You know, there’s that kind of awkwardness. So a lot of my friends have kind of found it in a way organically. Like I’ll put it on Instagram or whatever, and yeah, I’ve gotten some really neat, um, Comments and calls. And I also have to say for myself, as well as our listeners, we’ve heard from people reconnecting with old friends, like we are bringing up a memory that somebody may have forgotten or they remembered, oh, I did that with so-and-so.

I wonder what she’s up to, or he’s up to, and that’s happened with me with, especially with some high school friends, and that’s been a really unexpected gift from this plus the new friends that we have made too, because we know in this community. We have [00:26:00] the shared interest. And we had one listener who talked about taking chances, flew to Chicago to meet up with us, to go to a concert.

And now he is a great friend and is that’s a lot. So the whole friendship thing in the podcast, it has a few different arms and they’ve all been so life giving and affirming to me. So I’m just super grateful for that opportunity.

Kristin: And I I’m really thinking about your advice Nina on this, because it’s really holding true where some of my friends are all in waiting for that episode to drop every Monday, they listened to every single episode.

And then I have some who are never going to listen. And some of that might be that they don’t like podcasts. Some of them might not understand the degree to which I’ve jumped into this project. And maybe that’s because I’m holding my cards a little close to my chest. Like Carolyn said, like, I’m not necessarily saying, Hey, you got to listen to my podcast.

It’s all over the, it’s all over the map, but I listened to you Nina. And I [00:27:00] do not take it personally. This is just

Nina: the way it goes. Yeah. And you’ll have this with your book too. I, the advice I always give to people is as long as friends are saying. How’s it going? They don’t have to listen to that. Just say, Hey, how’s the podcast going?

How’s the book going? How the it coming up? It’s not a promise to read it, review it and, you know, buy 20 copies and asking, how are all of us going to, could deal with this? It’s asking how the podcast is going. Doesn’t mean they have to specifically reference an episode, but it is nice to ask.

Michelle: And I have a friend who has been a friend of mine since, oh my gosh.

Since we moved here. So like 20 something years ago, she now lives in New Jersey, but we connected over the same types of things that I connected with Carolyn and Kristin over. We immediately connected over award shows and movies and celebrities and everything. And her and her husband are just super close friends of mine and my husband and they listen to all the episodes.

I will say something though. That is probably, you know, really honest for me to say here, but I know that there’s probably people listening to this podcast on friendship. [00:28:00] Well relate to this, you know, I, at 50 years old, I mean, I’m 53 now, but at 50 years old, when I joined writing group and I had lived here for, at the time 20 years, I didn’t have a really large group of close friends.

My close friends are the people I went to college with, you know, and that’s still just a handful of people I keep in touch with. This friend, I’m just talking about it. That who now lives in New Jersey, but didn’t even live here. I had a lot of acquaintances. Um, a lot of people that I was good friends with when my kids were little and they were in the dance class.

So I was friends with those dance moms and we would certainly do things together or when they were in school. But when my kids grew up and graduated, they weren’t people that I really stayed close with. You know, I don’t know is that because I do like to stay at home more, is it because we didn’t have a lot in common?

You know, I would certainly go to a lot of neighborhood get togethers and I like all those people, but you know, when they would leave to go smoke or whatever, I was like, well, there’s not, they’re not really my people. And that’s fine. I’m not judging that. I’m just saying those aren’t maybe the P you know, you know how it is everybody.

And, [00:29:00] and I don’t know, I don’t know if it’s the new girl insecurities. I kept with me for so long that I never, I always felt like nobody’s gonna, I’m not going to ask anybody to go to lunch because nobody’s going to, everybody’s going to say, why is she asking me to go to lunch? So, you know, at age 50, I didn’t have a big group of clothes.

The writing group changed all that. And again, I mean, coming full circle because I took a chance and because there was something like that available. So, you know, not to pander to Indiana, but seriously, honestly, thank you. No, but thank you and Julie for creating something like that, because, because without that, you know, my life would be wildly different, right?

Kristin: Well, and, and again, full circle. I want you weren’t going there because you weren’t going to write a group because you needed friends, right? You were going there because this was something meaningful and important to you. It was you brought your own growth, potential. This is the

Michelle: results, right? Yes. At the time I was heavily into my freelance writing.

I thought this was a great idea. This is a great place to go and maybe try some new types of writing to get feedback from this, you know? And then even when I first started, I [00:30:00] never thought I would be. Like good friends with all of you. Like I just didn’t. I just thought you guys have been friends for too long.

I’m always going to be the new girl. No one’s ever going to include me in anything. And it very quickly though changed.

Nina: I’m so glad you brought up. Just really honest feeling, which was really the context of this entire episode of feeling like you didn’t have a lot of good friends at that time. And that’s sort of my message is that it’s never too late again.

I like, you know, Kristin’s point from the beginning to be thinking about the things that means something to you that you enjoy and want to do. And it, it can have a side benefit of making friends and probably well, but it doesn’t ha it can also be a valuable activity just because you’re doing something for yourself and often.

Being true to your own interests or trying something for you could result in things you don’t even, you don’t even know. I want to share a quote from, from a friend of mine, a newer friend of mine, actually, who I spoke to her about this episode before we recorded. [00:31:00] And. Probably five years older than I am.

And so a little closer to your age, your guys, you know, I always laugh at like, I’m the scary one, you know, quote unquote, but I’m the baby, she know your newer friends. And I said, and we’ve gotten pretty close and she actually lives not here. So it’s a phone conversation. So we have, and I said, tell me about, you know, how it is for you making new friends at this stage.

And she said something. Well, I said, oh, let me write that down. She said, I enter friendships differently at this stage of life. I don’t want friendships that forced me to suppress who I am. I don’t want any pretending. This is me. You get what you get a friendship is an investment of time. If I’m going to take the time it’s going to be with my full self.

And I want the same from a new friend. And that’s what I think I’ve seen with the three of you. I think I see it in our writing group and everybody’s really. 40 something plus, you know, probably I might be the youngest I’m 45. So I mean, people are just at these stages of, I think she said it really well.

Like we’re different than when you were sitting at the dance moms, [00:32:00] you

Michelle: know what yourself Nina it’s like I told Carolyn and Kristen this once, right. You know, very quickly after we started the podcast and meeting together all the time, we just, we just became like soul sisters. And I said to them, you guys.

I love our friendship so much because for the first time in my whole life with people, especially that you just met, I don’t leave a conversation, say, oh, you know, you’re driving home. Or after you turn off the zoom or whatever, or leave lunch, you’re like, oh wait, oh Michelle, why did you say that? Or, ah, you talk too much or, you know, you’re second guessing everything you said.

And it was the, it was not the first time because I certainly have that small handful of friends. I feel my truly myself with, but most of the friends I’d had in my adult life, I always walked away feeling insecure. And it was the first time that I didn’t. And then as, as you know, and as time went on, that’s how I feel with everyone and writing Brit too.

I don’t leave a writing group going, why did you say that? Oh, why? Oh, you shouldn’t have read that or you shouldn’t have said that. And so what your friend said is [00:33:00] so important, it’s you really, you start to find friends that you can share your insecurities with. That’s

Kristin: everything. And that means that you change the things that you do with those friends as well.

I was having a conversation with a friend recently who was really, and she’s a little bit younger and she was actually quite overburdened with her social life and the getting dressed up and then drying of the hair and the going to the fancy reservation and this, that, and the other thing. And I said, I just don’t do that anymore.

And she said, well, what do you do with your friends? I do things that don’t require me to brush my hair. I love it. That’s what I’m doing. I’m meeting people for coffee. I’m going for walks. We’re just getting together to look each other in the face and say, how are you doing? I know things were really tough last week.

Is it getting any better? And I don’t have to push my hair. I’m showing up as my real self. 100% of the time. Not that I don’t ever brush my

Michelle: hair, but not to say we don’t have fun. We have a lot of

Kristin: fun.

Michelle: We do

Nina: do fun things. Yeah. I know you do. Are you guys [00:34:00] ready for the better friendship goal of the week?

Let’s do it. Oh yes. And it’s really not for you three, cause you’ve already done this, but it’s for our listeners and. Advice that would have helped Michelle. When she first came to the writing group, it’s really good advice, I think. And you, you worked through it. So you did a great job, but there’s a psychologist and friendship researcher named Marissa Franco.

She’s always quoted. And if there’s an article about friendship out there, she’s quoted in it. And she always has something really helpful to say. And in her research, she has seen that people who show up assuming that others are going to like them. Do a better job, making friends. If you show up with the assumption, these people are going to like me, it just makes you act friendlier.

It makes you naturally put a smile on your face because the opposite is also true. If you walk into a situation, assuming that people aren’t going to like you, you very naturally act like a little bit, you know, shut off. Maybe you cross your arms. Maybe you’re not smiling. And. People read [00:35:00] off of our body language.

So the goal of the week is if you’re going to show up to something new where you might make a new friend, or even if you’re just coming to something like our writing class, let’s say where it’s, because you’re interested in it. It’s not necessarily to make new friends. You still might have that benefit of making new friends.

If you come with the assumption that people like you, it’s people already like you and will like you, as they get to know you. I mean, why not life short? Like, let’s assume, let’s assume people like us. Ladies. I am so grateful that we got to see each other and our class has been on break for a while. So at least three weeks.

So I miss seeing your faces and we’re finally getting back together in person these days. So that’s been really fantastic too. So I know I’ll see you soon. I can’t wait to hear this episode and for more people to just get to bask in your friendship and. Here about, you know, how I was helpful to get you together.

You know, I always like to get constant accolades and

Michelle: credit. You’re one of our fairy

Kristin: godmothers.

Nina: Yes. So everybody to go finally, pop culture, [00:36:00] preservation society podcast, anywhere you listen to podcasts. And then you can discover all three of our ladies, Michelle and Kristen, and Carolyn, who all have interesting things going on in social media accounts.

And you will find that all on Nina batson.com. Where I keep my show notes. And as I always say, if you have time to rate in the review of the show, that would be wonderful, but only if you liked it. I copied that from Glennon. I don’t know if you guys have heard me say that. Copy of that from Glen and Glen.

I know he says, if you didn’t that’s okay. Thanks. Anyway. And come back in a couple of weeks when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around.[00:37:00] .