[00:00:00] Chaz: If you weren’t healed at a moment, you might have been, , giving off an energy that wasn’t positive, which made people back off. And then sometimes people bring energy to you and that’s not what you need. And then when you kind of have found where you’re at in life, you definitely know what type of energy to bring in.

. You can tell immediately and the older you get, that’s why I think it’s great that you get older each year because you get a little wiser, Welcome to another episode of dear Nina conversations about friendship.

[00:00:32] Nina: I’m your host, Nina Baden. I’m a writer, a writing group leader, and a friendship enthusiast. On each episode, I welcome a different guest to help me get into the nitty gritty of friendship. What works, what doesn’t and all the little friendship dilemmas. We don’t always stay out loud. Today’s topic is outgrowing a friendship which came about organically with a fellow member of the co-working space, where I lead writing groups.

Welcome to Shea sand. Hi, Shay.

[00:00:57] Chaz: Hi,

[00:00:58] Nina: Before we get too deep into it, , I want my listeners to hear more about you. And I need to warn everyone that Shay does a ton, and this is not even all of it. this is not even all of it. When she and I were getting to know each other and she’s telling me everything she does.

I just kept looking up with wide eyes. Everything will not be here, but everything will be in the show notes and all the ways to find Shay will be there

[00:01:19] Chaz: Okay.

[00:01:20] Nina: And at the very end, Shay, I’ll give you another chance to just tell people , where to find you on social media.

Shay is the founder and owner of the new Minneapolis, a holistic health and wellness company, specializing in fitness, wellness, and nutrition. They offer private fitness classes around the twin cities and a variety of special programs with various partners. Shey is the sole source for diabetes prevention in Ramsey county, Minnesota.

She also owns Lakeview terrace farmer’s market. The only black woman owned farmer’s market in Minnesota, along with her young adult children, Jene and Jaylen, they help the community heal from the inside out. Shey personally speaks often in the community about owning a health and wellness business as a black woman.

And one of her main specialties is discussing generational. She has a weekly podcast with w C C O called fitness revolution with Shay more recently, she’s taken on a role as a co-leader for the communications work group at the university of Minnesota and the department of community engagement to advance research and community health.

And there’s even more, but I’m committed to having episodes at 30 minutes or less. So there’s some really cool programs that she does at modern well, and around the twin cities , so much stuff that you’ll just have to go to the show notes. So she, when you and I were talking , we got off topic on the work stuff and started talking about friends who. Have either you’ve grown past or , I don’t even remember how exactly we got on that topic, but it, all of a sudden in my eyes rolled up. I said, , this is an episode we have to do this. So what made you realize, like it’s time to let certain friendships go.

[00:02:53] Chaz: Well, I’ll go back to, , how we started was cuz we were talking about the evolution of, , the business and how it’s grown and how during that time of growth over the last 10 years, how , you shut off some dead weight and sometimes that dead weight through your journey, , is friend.

, or people you thought were your friends, , over the course of 10 years, as I’ve grown as an entrepreneur, I realize that those people in your life are, you know, as they say, uh, for a season and some people are in life forever, and some people are there to teach a lesson. And just for you to.

they can’t go with you to the next step. There was a aha moment a few years ago my big thing I always say is when someone says must be nice.

[00:03:36] Nina: yes.

[00:03:37] Chaz: So

[00:03:38] Nina: It’s never a compliment.

[00:03:40] Chaz: must be nice is not a compliment. Must be nice, is always full of jealousy or envy, which is very dangerous in a friendship and in your journey. So you have to be cautious

[00:03:51] Nina: What it implies when someone says it, that is that you didn’t work hard. , it erases everything that came before the whatever success you’re having now. , and you have a lot of success , right now. But I know it wasn’t overnight. It’s so much hard work. And so when somebody says, oh, must be nice.

You kind of wonder , what kind of friend is this?

[00:04:08] Chaz: who would say that, right? That’s not a real friend. , , you’re not expecting a friendship to be perfect, cuz I’m not a perfect friend. , you do the best you can. , but you wanna leave with empathy and love, and you know, the nice thing to say to person is that’s great that you’re at the level you’re at.

I’m glad to see you grow on your journey. And I’m here for you during this time. So those are just some things that people are struggling with, friendships that you can be supportive. You have to be aware of yourself and where you’re at and not compare yourself to other people’s journey. because, um, my father said you never know what steps or what they had to do to get there.

A lot of people sell their souls out, you know, to get to the next level. So, as you’re saying, as an entrepreneur, you are looking for those authentic, true relationships during this time, because it can be lonely at that top, whatever your top is at. And so it’s, hard to navigate, especially the older we get.

Right.

[00:05:05] Nina: Do you have friends? Who’ve been with you since the beginning of your entrepreneurial journey.

[00:05:10] Chaz: Oh, yes.

I have childhood friends. I have, some friends that were there before, when I used to work in corporate , and it was going through divorce and then decided to become an entrepreneur and are still right here supporting, , And, you know, , .

I don’t think it’s a bad thing. Let me just say that. I just think sometimes you outgrow people and I think as adults, we have to realize it’s okay to outgrow it’s okay. That that’s where they’re at. It’s not even that you can’t be friends, always. I mean, some people you just can’t, but you just, some things you maybe can’t discuss with them on that level.

[00:05:42] Nina: that’s a really important point , the framing about outgoing a friendship is sometimes very negative and it doesn’t have to be, maybe it’s mutual. Sometimes that lack of chemistry, we start to feel, we feel it because it’s felt on both sides and that’s the best. It’s actually better when it’s that way.

When everybody kind of silently agrees, it could be something simple. Like you move to a new town. I mean, that’s obviously location issue.

, sometimes we outgrow friendships for reasons that just aren’t personal, they’re circumstantial, and then it’s less hurtful. And part of how you and I got into this conversation back to the business is, and, and I’ve had this happen too, where. Feel like there are friends who can be there really easily in hard times.

I don’t take those people for granted. I see all kinds of things on Instagram and everywhere about reminding people to show up for their friends during hard times. And when I see that, I’m like, I feel like that’s actually easier to show up in a hard time.

Sometimes it’s harder to find the friends who are there. To continually root you on. Cause it can be tiresome when you’re always I’m. I know it is. I see myself posting on social media. I’m like, oh my God, I’m so sick of myself. I’m sure all my friends are so tired of me, but it is still nice to be acknowledged.

Are you feeling that with your many businesses.

[00:06:55] Chaz: Yeah. , I always say, stay within the fitness, wellness and nutrition realm is just, my lens has been more than what people thought. , the ideas I had, people are like, oh, that’s not gonna work. You’re not business savvy. You, you know, you, don’t what you’re doing.

And here I am living in my passion and living my best life. And I’ve just scratched the surface. . , that’s how I feel like there’s so much more potential that as I grow each day and learn from others around me, but what I’ve really learned is that as you said, they could show up for the bad.

Right. . So a few weeks ago, my son, teenager decided he was gonna stay out all

night. it happens right. But, , in my household, everybody was looking for him. So it had been about 26 hours where we hadn’t heard from him.

[00:07:41] Nina: Oh, yeah. Oh, the stress,

[00:07:42] Chaz: Yes, the stress.

Right. , everybody he’s okay. but what was, , really an aha moment. I post everything is about health and wellness, about bettering myself, bettering the community, bettering my children through education, through health, fitness, nutrition, , making it affordable, accessible, and sustainable all types of things.

. And I don’t expect everybody to like everything. I don’t expect , everybody to share everything. I don’t expect everybody to acknowledge everything, but what was mind boggling me is unless than 40 minutes, Nina, there was over, I wanna say 180 shares of my post looking for my son and like 600 some.

[00:08:27] Nina: Wow.

[00:08:28] Chaz: And my thoughts after everything cleared up, my phone’s blowing up from people I haven’t heard from in years,

, if bad news can spread that fast and bad route, cuz we didn’t know the outcome at first. , where are the friends? You know, I have my friends that do share stuff in support, but where are all y’all these other

[00:08:47] Nina: Right. Like not everything’s a crisis. It is so interesting how the crisis brings out the community and it would be cool to see that many people come out for something positive, like an event you’re having at the farmer’s market and something like that. Like, wouldn’t that be a dream to have 600 likes or something

[00:09:05] Chaz: But in that moment I realized that some people that’s just the type of friendship or ex friendship, that’s the only thing capacity they had for me was for the negative.

[00:09:17] Nina: for the crisis moment.

[00:09:18] Chaz: The crisis moment, . Not the positive moments. . those are also the majority of the people besides the good friends that were, people I didn’t talk to

[00:09:27] Nina: . . And it’s not surprising. I mean, I have learned in, in these past handful of years, like studying friendship and also, , being on social media as someone who’s sharing things a lot, that one way we can show affection to our friends and that we keep our friends.

Is things like compliments and acknowledging their hard work and expressing when we’re impressed that they’ve reached an accomplishment and even going as far as to, , encourage them to reach an accomplishment. So like you were saying, how, if you’ve had a couple of people in your life say, that’s not in your lane really, or that’s off brand, or you can’t really do that.

Or you don’t have the business, , background for that. , , let somebody. Life coach do that. Let somebody’s business coach do that or something like if what’s it to you, I actually think the friend should be there really to encourage you and say, you know what, you can do this.

And, and it ends up that you can’t okay. , it doesn’t help to. Be the person who holds your friend down, like why, what is the purpose of that? And that would be an immediate outgrow of a friendship. As far as I’m concerned. If I had a friend who was telling me, I couldn’t, I would have a hard time staying real connected.

, we are drawn to people who show us affection and encouragement.

[00:10:37] Chaz: You don’t have to love every idea, but I just think, starting off with the positive, not the negative. I had some apparel come out, for my business and someone didn’t like the. And it was under a hundred dollars and they said, what do you think you’re Nike or

[00:10:51] Nina: Yikes. Yeah. There’s such a thing as too honest.

[00:10:55] Chaz: right.

Because even if you thought that that’s not what you say, that’s

not what you

[00:11:00] Nina: you don’t have to buy it. Like, that’s actually a really good, , example. Cause I even think about my own podcast. You don’t have to listen to it to ask me how it’s going. , , you don’t have to sign up for my writing class to say, how’s the, how are the classes going?

How’s how is that going at modern wallers? People can show up for each other. Without, , buying the product, literally, without listening to the thing you’re putting out or even showing up at an event. I mean, you throw so many events, different kinds. , you have speaker series going on , with Don and you have , with Julie

, and I know that if you expected every friend to show up to everything, it would just be impossible. Like your business has grown so far beyond just your immediate family and friends. Thank God like that. Wouldn’t be sustainable.

[00:11:40] Chaz: right, right., that’s another point I wanna hit on too. , sometimes the friendships that you. Yet are not your friends and family, if that makes sense, ? The people that are your most supportive people are people you’ve never met. And, , they become a different type of friendship. They become that support. , not that I’m Beyonce, but I get the beehive. Right. So without her beehive fans, there would be no Beyonce. . She has to have fans. That’s great that her parents got her started. That’s great that her sister’s right there. but that doesn’t make Beyonce.

. What makes her is the fans that she goes and goes out and entertains constantly. The beehive that she created, which is amazing, they are her support. That’s why they feel like they’re her friends, cuz they are been on this journey with her. And I have some people that have been on this journey with.

For 10 years. When I first started teaching in parks, fitness, when I first became a diabetes coach and a life coach, and they still rock with me, I have a client from 10 years ago that comes to the farmer’s market

And I have not coached during nine

[00:12:48] Nina: it’s almost like the opposite in a good way of what we’re talking about. As opposed to outgrowing a friendship, that’s like growing into a friendship, like meeting somebody at a later stage and you kind of over time, what might start as a business thing, maybe grows into a friendship in times that you have felt that it was time to move on from a friendship.

Do you feel it happened naturally or did you have to actually have a conversation I’m starting to work on more episodes about, , Hard conversations cuz I’ve had letters. You know, I get anonymous letters and a theme seems to be coming up. And I have a Facebook group called dear Nina other group where we talk about friendship stuff and I am going to totally own the fact that I am pretty conflict avoidant, but I’m working on it.

It’s not that I’ve never confronted a friend, but I’m working on more episodes and, and this will fall right into it on, you know, when do you actually have the conversation to me? The conversation’s worth having. You’re hoping to save the friendship. Maybe I don’t know that it’s worth having, if you’re not, but I’m open to your

[00:13:46] Chaz: Where I am. Right. The first time I probably had conflict was in my late twenties, mid twenties, and I was taken back. Right. It was a friend from a long time. And the things people Harbor, . That you didn’t understand, you didn’t know about. Didn’t know that they were carrying. , I’m a life coach, I’ve had therapy myself. It had nothing to do with me. And the topic came up during a girls trip I was, talking to someone and I wasn’t talking to the mean, but it was about the topic and she heard overheard it and didn’t like it.

And what it had to do with.

. We were having a good conversation about the father of her child okay. That’s fine to Dan, whatever. And it was just, we were just having a normal girls conversation. What ended up coming out that she had been harboring for 15 years. That she had been jealous that I had a father and she didn’t and she said, , it must been nice that daddy always got to pay for everything.

And I was dumbfounded I was like, what .

[00:14:52] Nina: This came out on your girls

[00:14:54] Chaz: mm-hmm yeah.

[00:14:55] Nina: Once you get information like that, that somebody has been jealous all that time. It does kind of make you question. It makes you question a lap because it’s like someone who’s jealous as often. It is often about them.

Not about

you, like

you said,

but it does sort of mean they root against you sometimes.

[00:15:13] Chaz: They were rooting against you the whole time, just so you know, because there is no

jealousy, an envy. in a good relationship, right? Whether it’s a friendship with your significant other, whether it’s with your parents, whether it’s with your children, friendships are all different levels,

it’s not just girlfriends. You need to be friends with your spouse or significant other. You need to be friends with your children one day, . You parent them, and then you’re their friend. You, you know, there’s different levels of friendship. And so when that was said to me, I was like, okay. , and then later on yours, I realized that these were unresolved father issues.

That I thought me being a good friend and her me bringing her into my home, she was envious and jealous the whole time. , that was probably one of the most hurtful, , but they always say the people that are jealous and envi right here. . It’s never the ones far away.

It’s a ones close up. . And it’s, it’s happened a few times. Over the last 10 years as you grow , as I always say, the party stops, like if you, and you probably experienced this, you’re having fun in your twenties. . And then you got serious with someone and you got married.

Well, you’re not gonna be out partying with those same girlfriends the same way anymore. Are they still your friends, even though you can only say, Hey, I can go out like once a month, you guys, we can’t go out three, four times a week anymore. , and sometimes you’ve got the friends that are just for that.

And that’s where you have to leave them. You have some friends that you just worked with in corporate, and that’s where you leave them. You have friends that were just from college, from high school and, , from certain levels, whether you went through a bad time and you needed those people to get you through that.

And then you have people that might be the. , positive light for the rest of your life that you meet. So you just have to decide about where you’re at on your journey and then what type of friendships you want around you.

[00:16:59] Nina: That’s such a positive way of looking at it. It’s sometimes hard for me to let go of friendships. Cause I actually like people a lot. I it’s funny. I call myself an introvert, but I actually am very I’m with people a lot. I like people a lot. I’m always texting with people constantly and I. Can really admire people and like people and have people I adore from years ago, who I don’t wanna let go of for , any reason of tension or anything. It’s just like, you’re saying like these different stages. Then you start to get spread a little thin. It’s that really hard balance for me of it’s not so much about outgrowing necessarily.

It’s just reality sets in and there’s just not time

[00:17:37] Chaz: Yeah, my time is

different now. . I have two, , high schoolers getting ready to go to college in the next year. And two, my business is super busy, so my time is valuable when I do get time with girlfriends. , and so I want authentic relationships and it was very clear as my, and I keep going back to my dad.

My dad is a plethora of great. And he, he would say, , the loudest one in the room is the weakest. . So sometimes if you’re going through stuff, take a step back, be quiet and you’ll see who’s for you. And I’ve had to do that a few times, . . And also am I the problem, right? , Do I need to take a step back and look at itself .

And heal self. If you weren’t healed at a moment, you might have been, , giving off an energy that wasn’t positive, which made people back off. And then sometimes people bring energy to you and that’s not what you need. And then when you kind of have found where you’re at in life, you definitely know what type of energy to bring in.

. You can tell immediately and the older you get, that’s why I think it’s great that you get older each year because you get a little wiser,

[00:18:38] Nina: So true. , I love that this is so important as a parent. You said something that is so self-aware and I’m telling you, not everybody carries this with them. This idea that , sometimes you have. Analyze yourself and like what you’re bringing into the room. And I really try to do that with my kids.

, if they bring to me this one’s mad at me and then, then the coup next couple days, oh, this one’s not speaking to me. And the next couple days, this one hasn’t returned to text. At a certain point, I mean, I’ll look at my kid and say, okay, there’s one common denominator here.

Like, I’ll be honest and be like, you, you have. Be willing to look in the mirror and say , what am I, what happened? Everyone’s not just a jerk. Sometimes you have done something. Sometimes you owe an apology. Sometimes you’ve left people out too many times and they’ve had it. , you have to be willing to see that.

Sometimes it is us. Sometimes it’s them. Sometimes it’s our kids. Sometimes it’s not always everyone else’s fault. Like you’re having a lot of friendship issues. I don’t care if you’re an adult, a child, if you’re having a lot of friendship issues, It’s probably not everybody else.

It’s probably not. I don’t mean to like shame

[00:19:43] Chaz: no, but you have to realize the part you play. And also women are caddy ,

[00:19:50] Nina: oh

[00:19:50] Chaz: you know, I call it.

yeah.

So let’s get into that. . The cattiness, , I call it third party. Mad people were third party mad. So you and I are good friends. Right. And then you have this other friend and then we have a disagreement and you tell about, we have this.

And then all of a sudden, I see this friend who I know don’t even. And all of a sudden they’re acting weird and acting and I call it third party math. I’m like, wait, I don’t even know you. How are you? Third party? This is 1, 2, 3 people later.

[00:20:19] Nina: That’s a great expression. I’ve never heard that third

party mad. I’m gonna start adopting it.

[00:20:24] Chaz: But also when you’re saying, you know, it’s not everyone else. Well, sometimes you have inserted yourself in situations and it’s a pattern, I had a thing where I used to be friends with everybody. No, no, no, no, no. you cannot be friends with anyone.

Once again, my father, he used to say, I have three friends and those were his three brothers. And he goes, people are cool. They’re associates, but they’re not my friends. . You’re thinking you have a friendship, . They’re portraying that. You’re doing stuff, you’re sharing stuff.

Some people are just a listen ear so they can go tell other people. So you have to understand, is that a friend? Is that an acquaintance? Is that an associate? There’s people that you associate with that you just see in, in passing, cuz you know, through whatever from church or different events, that’s just an associate that you say, Hey Nina, how’s it going?

Hey Shay. And then there’s people that are business associates that you’ve done business with and there’s people that are acquaintances because maybe I know them through you. And then there’s friendships.

[00:21:27] Nina: yes. And there’s nothing. I think we should clarify. I love an associate. I’ve written things in defense of the acquaintance. Those people round out our lives. They really do. , I think our lives would be very dry with just family and like two best friends. These are how we make connections.

I’m willing to bet a lot of the business, connections and interesting people you’ve connected to are less through close friends and more so through these business acquaintances. And, you know, one thing leads to the next thing leads, . There’s some actual study.

, that we get ahead in our businesses not through close friends so much. It is through that next tier, those couple tiers down because those people know people, we don’t know, you know, everyone you’re really close friends

[00:22:04] Chaz: Right,

[00:22:05] Nina: it’s those next tiers where it, it grows

[00:22:08] Chaz: even with us, right. We’ve actually sat down and talked about our lives together. . We’ve met through Julie, , and then we’ve come together and then had this different relationship of our own. If we never sat down, we’re just acquaintances or associates to Julie,

[00:22:23] Nina: forever

forever. We would’ve just said hi. And for 20 more years, God willing, modern mile stays open.

[00:22:29] Chaz: . . And then that’s when things get misconstrued and that’s something I’ve had to do too. , , especially with social media, a lot of people, the lack of communication, communication clears up a lot of things, a phone call, you know, you cannot have a friendship through text messaging and wanna discuss something and think everything’s gonna be.

[00:22:47] Nina: Oh, gosh, I make that mistake Shay. So many times there are times when my thumbs are just going, going, going. And my husband will say, you have got to pick up the

phone.

[00:22:55] Chaz: Say, Hey, can we meet for coffee? , it’s just like anything with business. I am not about to email back and forth too much. You’re gonna get maybe a text, one email, and I’m gonna, Hey. Let’s clear this and nothing bad, but , let’s get to the point what we need to do, or have a meeting let’s meet and talk about this.

And that’s just old school of me. . But I’ve learned, , there’s no gray lines and it’s direct. So there is layers and I think it’s interesting, , that, , as we grow older, it is kind of down to those few friends, who can you call if you need something really bad at 2:00 AM, how many people could have that?

. How many people, you know, are gonna pick. Do you even have one person, some people don’t really have that person. They can call for that. Something positive, if you’re getting an award, who are you sending text messages that you know are gonna at least, you know, people may not able to make it cuz they’re not available, but, , they should be able to say, congratulations, I’m proud of you.

[00:23:47] Nina: , not the crisis call like we were saying, but the. Listen, I achieved something and frankly I want it to be acknowledged. , that’s hard. I actually think it can be harder to ask for positive support than it can be, to ask for, support on something that’s

rough.

[00:24:02] Chaz: Think about this. It’s your birthday. Let’s say you invite people. Oh, I’m busy. I can’t make it. I can’t play out. It’s too expensive. When someone dies, all of a sudden people got money to fly. They’ve got, they can fix stuff out.

I’m like, well, what was the difference? I get people, different things happen, but really what is the difference? You make time for what you wanna make time for. You support what you wanna support and you give off the friendship that you. Are instilling in yourself that you need, like, are you friends with yourself?

That’s another thing. Nina. A lot of people aren’t friends with themselves. So how could they possibly be friends with you?

[00:24:37] Nina: Do you see this in your work with the people you coach, you probably do like cuz if they’re just at the beginning of a fitness journey or a nutrition or a wellness journey, I could see how it’s not just that piece of their lives.

[00:24:47] Chaz: , what people portray in front of people is not really what a lot of times going on behind closed. So their friendships also a reflection of how they feel about themselves. If you’re having true, authentic friendships or you’re even making new friends, , you probably that’s how you feel. Like, I feel like I’m a good person. I can relate and I can gravitate to something new, whatever that may be. But if you’re like still trying to heal. Which I give people grace, people are where meet them, where they’re at. And so sometimes that reflects , how they can show up for you in that friendship.

[00:25:17] Nina: Oh, that’s so true. Shay, I’m gonna have a hard time titling this because we talked about so many good things, but I’ll do it cause I’m a good editor. You know, I’m a

good editor. So I will, find a way I think it’s great that we organically talked about a lot of topics. Can you tell everybody where they can find you?

[00:25:34] Chaz: Yes. The business that new NPLS can be found on Facebook, , Instagram and then, LinkedIn, it’s just my name, SHA sand, the first C H AZ, Sandra. Our website, the new npls.info. So we do have a new website coming out, so be on the lookout for that.

Right now, every Saturday at the Lakeview terrace farmer’s market in Robinsdale.

, it’s beautiful. , we have free fitness every week. We have activit. We have our back to school drive coming up August 13th, and then we’re wrapping up the year with a 5k with the United eco college fund.

If you’re interested or need help with diabetes prevention, you can go right to Ramsey county, put in diabetes prevention. You’ll see me. I have a new cohort coming up. And then fitness. We have free fitness at the farmer’s market, but if you want private, I do contracting for all of these services and life and wellness coaching too.

[00:26:26] Nina: Fantastic. I am so honored that you gave us your time over here at dear Nina. Everybody go find Shay . And come back here in a couple weeks when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around.

Have a good

week.