[00:00:00] Kristin:

I just really think this is an important conversation because I think it gives us the opportunity to look backward at your childhood friendships and see all the people who contributed to shaping who you are. it’s a thing that we should be grateful for. We get to take stock of who we are. We get to look at our good traits. We get to look at the things we’re proud of and be grateful for all the relationships we had, even if they were temporary.

[00:00:27] Nina: Welcome to Dear Nina, Conversations About Friendship. I’m your host, Nina Badzin. Today we’re talking about the childhood friends who shaped our identities

I’m dedicating this episode to the Braeside crew. You know who you are. I could name you all. I’m thinking about naming you all. okay. I’m just going to name like a handful. Jennifer, Jamie, Jill, Hillary, Susan, Laura, Leslie. There’s Jenni and Stacey. Sarah, Melanie, I did that all from the top of my head, so probably forgot some.

These are the people who were the friends of my childhood, who I went to school with from kindergarten on and are just a big part of my memory. I actually do talk about a few of you in the episode, My guest is Kristin Nilsen. Who is my good friend here in Minneapolis. And you will love her, I promise. She writes middle grade fiction, and she wrote this to me when she pitched an idea for an episode. Because yes, even if we’re friends, I will make you pitch the episode idea.

Kristin wrote in her email: Writing a book for children involves understanding how childhood friendships work, and what purpose they serve. One thing I’ve discovered is that they’re generally far more formative than the friendships we have as adults.

Most of us have had a variety of friendships in childhood that somehow helped shape our identities. I’m not talking about the best friends or the friends who are still by your side well into adulthood. This is not about hierarchy or importance. It’s about people who came into your life at the right time and showed you something about yourself that helped you grow into the person you are today.

These might be people you don’t even have contact with anymore. It might have been brief, a camp friend, someone who moved away. But something about that person encouraged you to move in a different direction or unleash something within you that still plays a role in your life.

She emailed a lot more, but I will let her speak for herself in just a second. A little more about Kristin: Kristin Nilsen is the author of a new novel for middle grade readers called Worldwide Crush. And it’s so good. It unpacks and celebrates the celebrity crushes of our youth. It’s technically for middle grade readers, but it’s also gathering a following of nostalgic middle aged readers like me who are having fun reliving their own first crush experiences. Kristin is one of the co-hosts of the Pop Culture Preservation Society podcast, a podcast devoted to preserving the cultural nuggets of the classic GenX childhood, including our first crushes. And if you’re a dedicated listener of this show, you will recognize Kristin from when she was a guest here along with Carolyn and Michelle of the Pop Culture Preservation Society when they discussed becoming close friends at 50 and beyond. That was episode 26.

So if you haven’t heard it and you find yourself in a stage of life where you’re kind of like, I am open to meeting new people, there’s a lot of good practical discussion in there about how that happens. And it doesn’t always happen immediately. It takes time. You’ll hear Kristin give a lot of wisdom on that episode.

All right, Kristin. I’m finally going to let you talk. Welcome.

[00:03:29] Kristin: Thank you! Thank you for having me. What your listeners don’t know, well, you might not know this either, is that in my mind, I’m the unofficial co host of Dear Nina. I am always in my car going, Oh, yes, you know what you should do? And I’ll just talk directly to my car speakers.

[00:03:45] Nina: . And I love when you disagree with me, like a couple

[00:03:47] Kristin: Mm hmm, yeah.

[00:03:48] Nina: written me and been like, I don’t know about, you know, when you and Taryn told, that person to, you know, X, Y,

[00:03:53] Kristin: I have opinions.

[00:03:54] Nina: I love how much you think about friendship. I loved your point about the amount of thought that should go into the friendships in a book for kids, because friendships are so important.

[00:04:06] Kristin: I feel very strongly about this, I think it’s because I write for children that I feel strongly about this, because you cannot write for children without having studied friendship, because most of the books that we read in childhood have some element of friendship in them. It could be just the appearance of a friend that is with them throughout the story, or it can be the actual theme of the book. I think that’s because part of the job of childhood is figuring out friendship. And the reason that is, is because our friendships in childhood are kind of what help us figure out who we are.

[00:04:39] Nina: Absolutely, and what were some examples that other people would recognize and go, yes, like I did when I read your email?

[00:04:47] Kristin: because we don’t think about it, right? We just read these books and then we move on. So if you think about your favorites from childhood, Charlotte’s Web is the story of a pig who has this beautiful relationship with a spider. But his relationship with the spider is far different from the other friendships that he has with the other animals in the barn. You’re friends with Charlotte in a much different way than you’re friends with Templeton the rat. Are you there God? It’s me, Margaret. I think if you ask people what that book is about, they’re going to say, it’s about a girl who gets her period. No, no. It’s about a girl who moves and she now has the job of trying to fit in at her new school.

Fitting in is just another word for finding friends. Harriet the Spy. Harriet the Spy is not about a spy route. It’s about having friends and then losing those friends. Ouch. The Secret Garden. Secret Garden is a huge friendship book.

Secret Garden is not really about a garden. It’s about a sickly boy who can’t go outside and the girl who befriends him and tries to make him better so that he can go outside and see this beautiful garden. Betsy-Tacy. Were you a Betsy-Tacy fan, Nina?

[00:05:49] Nina: No, I don’t even know what that is.

[00:05:52] Kristin: Oh! Okay, well this will be very interesting.

The Betsy-Tacy books are books about two friends who are so close that they go by one name. Betsy-Tacy.

[00:06:01] Nina: Oh

[00:06:01] Kristin: But one is named Betsy, and one is named Tacey. And they actually follow these girls from kindergarten all the way through adulthood.

[00:06:08] Nina: Okay. And then I in my childhood, read all of those except Betsy-Tacy, and that’s such a fun concept. Babysitter’s Club was the best. And again, not really about babysitting. You know, we can do this for so many books. Another one that may surprise you, cause you might not think of it as a kid’s book, but I read them in fifth grade and that is Sweet Valley High. And I think from that series, I learned more how not to be a friend. Or how to be a friend. There are good friends and there are bad friends. I also learned the danger of cocaine. I remember, I think it was number two or three when Lila, one of their friends, has a cocaine overdose and that scared me away from drugs. Forever.

[00:06:47] Kristin: Scary! This is what we were reading when we were in fourth grade. All of those Sweet Valley High, we think that they’re about boys. They’re not about boys. They’re about friends.

[00:06:56] Nina: Yeah, they are. And, you know, obviously, in that series, they’re twin sisters, but, each of them has their own, go to person. Elizabeth, the quote unquote, nerdier one, always has better friends and more loyal friends than Jessica, the quote unquote, popular one. So I feel like I learned a lot from that, too, just to be careful about, social climbing.

[00:07:16] Kristin: That was teaching us about the dynamics of friendship that would be coming in high school. And how to navigate.

[00:07:21] Nina: And we always read up, right? Like I think in high school I was reading Danielle Steele and all this other stuff, which was really probably for the next stage. Yep. Yep.

[00:07:38] Kristin: An adult book doesn’t have to have any friends in it whatsoever. And if there’s a theme of friendship, then we all know about it, right? Like, oh, this is the book about friendship that says X, Y, and Z. With the children’s books, it’s ever present, and we might not even perceive it.

[00:07:53] Nina: and there’s a friendship in your book I tell this to every author who comes on my show that we’re not going to spend a tremendous amount of time on their book because not everyone has read it and I hate to do spoilers. But I do want to say one of my favorite parts of Worldwide Crush is the beautiful friendship between Millie, the main character and Shauna, her best friend, and it is so refreshing to see a friendship in a book. I do know it exists in other kids books as we’ve already discussed, but I haven’t read a middle grade book in a while.

I loved this friendship that is so supportive, friends that cheer each other on, and there’s not like a competition. I think adults aren’t as good at cheering each other on.

[00:08:31] Kristin: No, they’re not. And if you observe children, I see that all the time. And it makes me angry when I don’t see that reflected in books. And the reason that is, is because adults make assumptions about, female friendship in particular. They jump to conclusions about what female friends do in middle school. Sure, there are some mean girls, they’re not all mean. Most of them are really good kids and really kind to each other, and I guess people don’t think that makes a very good story. I think that Millie and Shauna are a great team, and Shauna is really helping Millie figure out what comes next for her.

[00:09:06] Nina: And you’re right My kids have some really nice friends. There’s been some, you know, ups and downs through the years and my kids being the fault of that too at times, but there are some really great kids out there in real life.

[00:09:18] Kristin: and most of the time when they get into some drama, it’s not because they’re mean kids. It’s generally because they don’t know what to do and they’ve done something wrong. They just stepped in it, is what happens. But when we portray it in literature or on TV, You have the good guys and the bad guys, and it’s not just somebody going, Oh, man, I don’t know how to tell this person that I don’t want to come to her birthday party.

[00:09:41] Nina: Yes. Or I don’t know how to tell people that I can’t have 20 people sleep over. I can only have four.

[00:09:47] Kristin: How do you do that?

[00:09:48] Nina: Right, and it’s not everybody is a bad kid or a mean person because they want to have an intimate gathering. I deal with this so much in my podcast, so much. I actually just heard an episode of Glennon Doyle’s We Can Do Hard Things about being left out and part of what I loved about their discussion—it started out with them remembering some moments in their lives when they were left out as kids, but they actually had a very nuanced conversation where they got to a place of saying, If we teach kids that every time they’re not invited to something, it’s a crisis, then we create adults who are constantly trying to please everybody and not everyone should be labeled a mean kid. Glennon said this. I was so glad to hear her say this because she carries so much power in the world.

She said, in defense of kids who can’t always just be with everyone all the time. It just does not work. She said that everyone should not be labeled the mean kid because they wanted to have just like a couple of people over. And then we spend our whole lives, I think I spent my life this way being worried about being labeled the mean person, and that’s pretty limiting.

[00:10:47] Kristin: And that fear sticks with you. And then you fall over yourself trying not to be that person. When you’re going to make that choice to be with just two friends instead of all 15 of them, you’re asking a child who doesn’t have any experience to try to explain that to somebody elegantly. And that’s a big task.

And I think one thing that is interesting about Worldwide Crush that I didn’t do on purpose, but I think is interesting, nonetheless, is that Millie and Shauna are a duo. They don’t really have a friend group. It’s just the two of them. And you said on one of your podcast episodes that the happiest kids are the one who have one good friend instead of the giant group of friends.

Because look at these messes that we just talked about. Millie and Shauna are there for each other 100 percent of the time. it makes for a very consistent. Way of being friends. You don’t ever have to worry about if you’re getting invited or not. It’s just Shauna and Millie.

[00:11:39] Nina: Yes, and it was Dr. Lisa Damour who said that It was such a good episode. And she didn’t just say that as a matter of opinion, it was research backed up that kids who have at least one good close friend are pretty happy because in the case of your book it’s like if Millie gets good news, she knows exactly who to cal. bBecause with the big group, okay, you called friend a well now friend B through Z is like, Why’d you call that one?

[00:12:02] Kristin: Why didn’t you call me? Yeah. Mm hmm.

[00:12:04] Nina: Why am I hearing about it from this one? Yeah, that’s a whole thing.

[00:12:06] Kristin: She said you always know who you’re gonna call. You always know what you’re doing on Friday night. You always know who you’re riding with and it makes for a very secure place.

[00:12:14] Nina: Okay, so let’s move on to another piece of what you wrote to me. Well, not just another, a main piece of what you wrote to me in the email really touched me. It’s so funny. You can be good friends with someone and then when they write to you in a more professional aspect, you get to like see this other side of the way they think. I loved what you said about adult friendships coming to us more fully formed and the way childhood friendships are more like we’re clay waiting to be sculpted. Can you say more about that?

[00:12:40] Kristin: Sure. Okay. So, and I think this is one reason that we don’t see friendship in adult books as a matter of course, it’s a literary choice to add a friendship to an adult book where it is not so much. You kind of have to have the friendship in a children’s book. And I think that’s because we come to adult books friendships more fully formed. Our personalities are set. We bring a certain number of traits to the table. Not that we’re not influenceable, but we kind of are who we are when we make friends when we’re adults. When you’re a child, you’re more kind of waiting to be formed. And the way I said it to you is that we’re like lumps of clay looking to be formed.

We’re just looking for the proper sculptor. And those sculptors are oftentimes our friendships. And that doesn’t necessarily mean, like you said in the intro, that it’s your best friend, your good friend, your long term friend. It could be somebody that was a temporary friend, somebody that you met at camp, somebody who moved away.

It’s just somebody who made an impression upon you in the form of clay. They’re literally making an impression on you, and then they might go on and move into a different part of their life, but that impression is still left on the clay. You know, I’m 55 years old, but there are friendships from when I was seven years old that have left their impression upon me.

[00:13:52] Nina: Whether you’re in touch or not now is beside the point.

[00:13:55] Kristin: It’s beside the point.

[00:13:56] Nina: That’s not, what we’re talking about. Can you think of a couple of those friendships?

[00:13:58] Kristin: Yeah. And I think this is a really important point we’re not saying my good friend, so and so, she was so important to me. It’s not a hierarchical thing. We’re talking very specifically about what impact one certain person had on you. So the first one that comes to mind for me, when I was seven years old, we moved to a new neighborhood and I met a girl named Anne Chase. Anne Chase did not wear dresses.

I was still at the age where I was kind of wearing what my mom bought for me. I had opinions, of course, and I had likes and dislikes, but I wasn’t really picking out my own clothes, and I didn’t know that I didn’t have to wear the dresses. Anne Chase basically wore corduroys and her Star Wars t-shirt all the time.

Every day. Including Christmas. And the church programs and whatnot. She wore her cords and her, and her Star Wars shirt. This was a huge wake up call for me. And this began a huge battle with my mom, of course. Because my mom is picking out these beautiful little frilly dresses.

She wanted me to look a certain way. What I was realizing at age seven is I don’t like the frilly, girly dresses. I want to wear the cords. I want to wear the Star Wars shirt. And it’s not that I didn’t like, some feminine things, but I liked them without the lace, without the ribbons, without the polka dots on them.

Give me a nice wrap skirt. I’ll wear a nice wrap

[00:15:15] Nina: That you can move in.

[00:15:16] Kristin: Yeah, right. It makes me look a little grown up. I might look a little bit more like Charlie’s Angels, but I did not want to look like Shirley Temple anymore. That was really bothering me. So my mom and I came to sort of a detente. There were some instances in which she said, you have to wear a dress. Grandma’s coming. You have to wear a dress for the Christmas program. And I would say, okay, if I can wear jeans underneath.

[00:15:36] Nina: Oh, smart.

[00:15:37] Kristin: Today that’s how I dress. I will buy dresses that I think that I like, and they will sit in my closet. And I do not wear them. And finally one day I was like, why don’t you wear them? Oh yeah, you don’t like dresses.

[00:15:49] Nina: You don’t like them. Yeah.

[00:15:51] Kristin: I feel far sexier in a pair of pants than I do in a dress.

[00:15:54] Nina: Anne Chase, is her name?

[00:15:55] Kristin: Anne Chase, yeah.

Nina: That’s a great name.

Kristin: It’s a great name. I’m going to have to use that name. I’ll get her permission sometime. I’m only 7 years old when this is happening. But she made an even bigger impact on me. I think even more importantly, she was my first reading friend. Witch books, horse books, Narnia books. She would call me and say, can you come over and read? I didn’t really understand that people didn’t do that until I said that to somebody within the last few years. And they’re like, shut up. Somebody called you and asked you to come over to read? Like, yeah, is that weird?

[00:16:23] Nina: Fantastic.

[00:16:24] Kristin: It was the best and obviously it spoke to who I was and then we would act these books out. This is how we played. We would take these stories and these characters and then we would act them out. My previous friends. We would play with things. We would play with toys.

We would play with Barbies. We’re still pretending, but we’re playing with things. With Anne Chase, we played with books. We didn’t need the toys. And these stories that we made up, it was like my first experience writing for children. So I go on to become a children’s librarian. I eventually go on to write books for children. It’s an impact that is still with me today. Later on in my childhood, I moved again, and I could not find reading friends. I was pretty lost.

[00:17:06] Nina: It’s like maybe until you found our writing group. Well, no, I guess as a children’s library and I’m sure you are around other people, people who loved to talk about books, but I think that’s part of what our writing group loves. We just love to nerd out about that stuff.

So I have one also from probably that stage of life. Her name is Melanie. Melanie was so, and probably is still creative. I just remember her being so imaginative.

[00:17:30] Kristin: It was who she was. It was part of her identity.

[00:17:33] Nina: We just were very imaginative together. I think we did stuff in ravines. I grew up in Highland Park in Chicago There’s a lot of ravines. She was into nature. I got poison Oak and poison Ivy once each playing with Melanie. My family was not very naturey. She drew a lot. We did a lot with birds, we drew birds. We did a lot of make believe with birds. She, I think had a parakeet. And so I wanted one. I convinced my parents to get me one. Can you imagine? I hate animals.

[00:18:00] Kristin: You got a pet?

[00:18:01] Nina: well, I grew up with dogs. My parents, yeah, my parents rescued greyhounds. And so we had two greyhounds at a time at all times, which explains why I don’t have pets. I did beg for a parakeet. And my parents let me get one. Its name was Minnie, and my parents made me keep her in my room. I had a parakeet in my room that pushed poop everywhere. Gross. I wanted one because I think either Melanie had one or Melanie was into them or something. I just have such fond memories of imaginative games we played together.

[00:18:30] Kristin: She unleashed something within you, it sounds like.

[00:18:32] Nina: Yes, because I do think of myself as a creative person. Maybe not as whimsical as she was, but I do think she unleashed something. Two other friends I have in mind, I remember the warmth of their friendship and they both moved. Cause when you had written the email to me, you mentioned how like there might be a friend who moved , it made me think of Stacey Sabala and Sarah Slavin. Both were very close friends of mine in elementary school and they left, but maybe part of what they left with me was just knowing you could have such a good close friend and that you can make other ones.

[00:19:02] Kristin: Oh.

[00:19:03] Nina: I don’t think I worried so much. Oh, I’m not going to have friends now. Unlike you, I didn’t move. My mom still lives in the house I grew up in, which is the house my father grew up in. So we’re, we’re pretty rooted there. But other people moved and then maybe I just had the confidence that, okay, I’ll make another good friend. because those two left and I survived.

[00:19:21] Kristin: That’s a very common thing in childhood too, that people come and go out of your life. If I recall correctly, when people moved, it was not a tragedy. It was an aw shucks. And it was just sort of like a chapter that ended. We were always forward moving and it was okay. It doesn’t mean that you weren’t sad or didn’t miss them, but yeah, you’re like, well, we’ll see who moves into the new house.

[00:19:39] Nina: That’s right. And one other funny memory of a childhood friend I think you’ll appreciate, Jenni Lewis moved around the corner in fifth grade. And that’s a hard time to move because middle school started in a different building in sixth grade. So here she was coming in at the end of elementary school with people who generally were there the whole time.

She and I used to make radio shows on our boom box. We would sit in front of the boom box, press record, and we would make a little radio show. Look at that. It was kind of like a precursor.

[00:20:06] Kristin: That’s adorable! That’s super creative. Oh, funny. Mm

[00:20:10] Nina: She was also very creative. And one other memory of Jenni I think she’ll appreciate hearing this. There was so much laughter in her house, at least as I perceived it. I just felt like there was a lot of joy in that house. I’m not saying my house did not have joy in it, but it was just different. They were all very creative. I was attracted to creative people. My mom’s creative too,

[00:20:26] Kristin: There’s the coloring in the lines, creative, and then there’s the coloring outside the lines, creative. And I was attracted to those houses where they colored outside the lines. There’s nothing wrong with coloring inside the lines. It’s just, where do you feel most comfortable? I think that fifth grade thing that you said is really important, that transitional time. So when I did move away from the Anne Chase neighborhood, the reading neighborhood, I was in fifth grade, and I moved in the middle of the year, which is just tragic.

Nina: So tragic.

Kristin: And then nobody reads a book. My God, it was hard. Eventually I found some friends. They were not necessarily reading friends, but they were friends that claimed me, which is always a beautiful thing. When somebody comes in and says, you belong to us. And you’re just like, okay, somebody take me, right? That’s the, Are You There God, It’s Me, Margaret, somebody take me please. I had the Stein girls. If you’ve listened to the Pop Culture Preservation Society podcast before, you know all about the Stein girls. Because they’re responsible for every R rated movie that I saw in junior high.

[00:21:22] Nina: There’s always that  friend. I might have been that friend for other people, sorry Mom.

[00:21:27] Kristin: There’s always somebody who’s a little more permissive, or the parents are a little more permissive, and that’s a fun place to be. And the Stein girls were way more comfortable with teen life or being on the verge of teen life than I was. We weren’t playing anymore. We were now listening to music. We were doing our makeup and we were talking. A lot of talking. And we were talking about what comes next. Some of which was scary. For me, not for them. It wasn’t scary for them at all. But these were things that I couldn’t necessarily talk about with anybody else, except for the Stein Girls. So they basically dragged me from childhood into adolescence. Very gently and lovingly they dragged me. And I grew into my teen self alongside them, with their help, really. But I also found my edge with them. Because by the time we got to high school, they were going a little too fast for me. I had to back away a little bit and figure out What am I comfortable with? Who am I really? And I could figure that out by watching them.

[00:22:27] Nina: That’s really so true about when sometimes groups move too fast or people move too fast and you’re not quite ready. It’s a really important piece kind of back to the beginning when we were talking about being left out or not getting invited. Sometimes it’s a blessing, actually, and kids can’t see it at the time, but sometimes if you’re being not invited, it may be that. They perceive you’re not on the same page and it’s actually better for you to find people at your own pace

[00:22:52] Kristin: yes, and you have to trust your instincts. We have to give our kids permission to listen to what their feelings really are. Instead of listening to the feelings that say you’re left out, listen to the feelings that say, do I really want to do what they’re doing?

[00:23:05] Nina: Oh gosh I wish I could get through to more parents so many parents just insist on their kids being included and you’re robbing your kid of finding kids who really Like them for who they are.

[00:23:15] Kristin: Well, and your kid might be changing also. It could be that they were on the same page. And then as your kid starts to discover more about themselves, it’s not the right fit anymore. And they shouldn’t feel the obligation to continue that friendship if it’s not the right one.

You know, I think this relationship with the Stein girls is the perfect example of nothing happened. We didn’t stop liking each other. We just sort of, little, you know, slowly, bit by bit, started doing different things with different people. And if I saw them today, I would give them the biggest hug. We naturally went different directions based on what we were ready for.

[00:23:50] Nina: I feel that way about so many girls I grew up with and I hope that some feel that way about me, like where maybe I went in a different direction, but it’s not because I didn’t like them anymore. Especially back when we grew up. It’s not like you could just be connected to tons of people all the time. A lot of times you just have to be able to walk over or ride your bike. Like it wasn’t so easy to be in touch.

I can think of people who moved away from me, not to a different state, but emotionally. It’s just how it is. I still have good memories of them.

[00:24:18] Kristin: It’s a natural occurring phenomenon, and you’re right, you still have really good memories. And to your point about parents, I can remember when I stepped in it, when it appeared that I made some assumptions about what was happening with my child, and I thought that he was being left out. And I started to get those horrible feelings that you do when you think your child is being left out. And my child is not doing anything about it. And he doesn’t even really appear to be feeling bad about it. So what am I feeling bad about? And it took me years to figure out that they weren’t leaving him out. He was pulling himself out.

[00:24:51] Nina: Oh,

[00:24:51] Kristin: And I should have been supporting him. Like, good for you for trusting your instincts.But instead, I got all weird about it.

[00:24:58] Nina: Oh my gosh, I’ve done that. I have done things I regret, and sometimes I worry that people see the title of a podcast episode, even if they don’t listen to it, but they see it on Facebook, and they’re like, Oh yeah, Nina really knows about that. Cause I did the opposite. That’s why I always say the beginning of every episode—I didn’t say it on this episode—but I do say it a lot that I’m not an expert. Because I love facilitating these conversations as we all learn more about friendship together, me and my listeners, together.

[00:25:26] Kristin: And if I had just, asked my child, instead of jumping to conclusions, I would have found out that those kids were doing things that he didn’t really want to do. I have another friend who, you know, good for you kid, for like, recognizing what you’re not comfortable doing because I had a friend who made me super uncomfortable. This is 7th grade, this is junior high, I’m not going to say her name because  there’s some law breaking involved. She was a big risk taker, which could be really, really fun. But she was also a lot more comfortable breaking the law than I was. I always had to be the grown up. There was shoplifting involved, and I’m like, what am I gonna do about the shoplifting?

[00:26:03] Nina: I’m panicking for you

[00:26:04] Kristin: Yes! I’m sweating! I’m like 12 years old, and I’m just sweating while I’m standing in Snyder’s drug store, like, Put that back! Put it back! We’re gonna go to jail! I ended up realizing that I overtly did need to play the mom in that relationship, and I would say no. We are not doing that. I’ve kind of carried that through my whole life where I am the grown up, generally, when it comes to shenanigans in any group that I’m in.

When I was a teenager and I was completely reckless. I was still the grown up when it came to risky behavior. I will always be the safety patrol. I will always be the one to say, you cannot drive your car in reverse. All the way down the street, we need to pull over right now and turn your car around. This is a true story. When somebody is doing something that is going to cause physical harm, I’m going to step in and say, not safe.

[00:26:52] Nina: I’m same. That’s why I’m laughing. Like I’m such the goody two shoes.

[00:26:55] Kristin: And I don’t even know if it has to do with being a goody two shoes or breaking rules or not, I see where people are not making good decisions about other people’s safety. My safety. I don’t want to go to jail. There was one time where we were, This is a horrible. My mom’s going to hear this story. Sometime in high school when we all thought it’d be a great idea to get on the back of some stranger’s motorcycle and go cruising around town.

And I’m on the back of the motorcycle and he turns into a cornfield. And I’m like, Oh, this is where I die. He’s going to kill me now. And somehow we arrive, we get through the cornfield and we arrive at a house and my friends are already there. They’re off the back of their motorcycles. And I walked in and I grabbed each person like, come now, we’re going home. It’s time to go home. This is not a safe place to be. And I’m 17 years old.

[00:27:42] Nina: we’re in a murder scene.

[00:27:43] Kristin: This is a murder scene. Everybody come with me. We’re going home now.

[00:27:46] Nina: Did they listen?

[00:27:47] Kristin: Yes! They did. Because I was not like, you guys, we should go. I was like, It’s time to go.

[00:27:55] Nina: I wonder if you have friends, now you’re thinking more teen in that part, but going back as a kid, I wonder if you have friends who remember you a certain way. I wonder if I have friends who remember me a certain way.

I just wish we could know.

[00:28:08] Kristin: Oh, I cannot believe I’ve never considered that before. That is fascinating. Yes. Am I Anne Chase’s reading friend? I don’t know. I have

[00:28:17] Nina: no idea.

Are you someone else’s? Did you introduce in the new town when you moved in fifth grade, did you introduce someone else to books

[00:28:24] Kristin: I want to know. Some people, if you know me, write in. I need to know if I had an impact on somebody’s life. But that’s a really, really good question. It has to be true. We have to have been somebody else’s sculptor. Somewhere along the way. Because I’m sure I haven’t seen Anne Chase since ninth grade. I’m pretty sure that’s the last time I saw her. She does not know this. , this is all gonna be news to her when I send it to her on Instagram.

[00:28:47] Nina: Are you connected on social media? That’s really cool. Okay. I think we have to wrap up I always like people to have a chance to not hang up and go, Oh, I wish I said.

[00:28:55] Kristin: Well, I just really think this is an important conversation because I think it gives us the opportunity to look backward at your childhood friendships and see all the people who contributed to shaping who you are. it’s a thing that we should be grateful for. We get to take stock of who we are.

We get to look at our good traits. We get to look at the things we’re proud of and be grateful for all the relationships we had, even if they were temporary.

[00:29:18] Nina: It’s such an important message that that would be the last thing I want to leave with is that not everybody has to be a lifelong bestie to be important in your life. I know we’re talking about childhood, but I think we could take that lesson into adulthood as well. Perhaps you had a friend in your twenties that was an important friend in that portion of your life who’s not part of your life today. Not everything is a friendship that ended. It’s a friendship that drifted apart for natural reasons and you can still have good memories of that person. You could have the friendships that stay with you. Of course, those are very special, but it doesn’t diminish the importance people have stopped being in your life.

[00:29:51] Kristin: it doesn’t. And it just means that that is a part of that story. That friendship is a part of that story from when I was in my 50s.

[00:29:59] Nina: And that’s how we make room for new friends too. Alright everybody, the book you need to read is Worldwide Crush. Kristin has been in my writing group for seven years. Inside of Kristin lives a middle school child who writes

[00:30:14] Kristin: That’s right. Yep.

[00:30:15] Nina: and comes out and it’s amazing and there’s going to be a sequel and I’m so excited. I can’t wait to read that one. I see now how that all is ready for the next book because, I’m going to get on Tik Tok and talk all about the book. I’m trying, Kristin. I’m trying with the Tik Tok

[00:30:30] Kristin: Me too. I’m trying. I’m taking, I’m on a little break right now cause it, it took me down.

[00:30:34] Nina: I know, okay, we’ll talk about that offline because I’m questioning the purpose of life and I don’t think TikTok’s it.

[00:30:40] Kristin: No.

[00:30:40] Nina: right? You’re usually really good with boundaries. Kristin and I, you know, could go on and on cause we’re friends and we won’t bore you all with our social media anxiety and problems. Kristin, thank you for coming

[00:30:50] Kristin: Thank you, Nina. Aw.

[00:30:51] Nina: and everyone else. I hope to see you next week when our friendships are going well and when we remember our childhood friendships fondly, we are happier all around. Bye.