Nina:

I wish that more of the people who write to me would see how powerful it is, to view yourself as the one who makes the plans.

Welcome to Dear Nina. Conversations About Friendship. I’m so glad you’re here. We are celebrating two years today. I’s the proverbial we. I am celebrating two years of making this podcast, and you, the listeners, are celebrating with me by listening, and I appreciate it so much. I do not take it for granted that I am out here talking about these things that I’m really passionate about and that people are listening and responding, I wouldn’t do it if you weren’t.

So thank you for joining me on this adventure of talking about, thinking about reading, about listening to information about friendship. I really make a point in my podcast of not spending a lot of time going over the reasons why it’s important to have friends in your life. To me that’s just common sense, and I know that there is science to back that up. There’s research about how people who are the happiest long-term really point to their social connections as the reason why more than almost anything else. And I will link in the show notes the research for that. There was a wonderful Ted Talk not that long ago about that that also points to a lot of research. I just take that as a given. On this show, we’re not here to prove that you need friends. To me, that is the entire thesis of the show.

Yes, we need friends, so how do we get along? How do we make this part of our lives fulfilling and enjoyable and take the stress out of it? I would say that’s my number one goal. That’s been my goal from the get-go. If you listen to the trailer, which most of you, I’m sure have not because now that the show is two years old, I picked up many listeners along the way. Every podcast has a trailer that’s about a minute or two long.

And in it I stated the whole purpose of the show. And that purpose has not changed. I say it at the end of every episode too, which is when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around. But it’s that going well part that can get tricky. And that’s how I end up creating episode after episode to really pin down those little parts that sometimes don’t go well that trip us up, that take something that could really be just a positive and happy part of life and adds a layer of complexity that gets in our own way.

We get in our own way. As other people get in their own way, it ends up getting in our way because now we have to deal with the fact that they’ve got all kinds of feelings about things that maybe are just assumptions, but now have become real to them, spills over to us. So we’re dealing with their uncertainty. I’m being kind of vague because this can cover so many different topics.

For the two year anniversary, I am doing a solo episode to talk about something that I actually believe is the underlying topic of many of my episodes, even though I’ve never titled it this way. I’m not even a hundred percent sure what I’m going to title this, so I’m gonna tell you both points. This is just two ways of saying the same exact thing, and I haven’t decided yet how I want it to look on my graphic.

I do all my graphics, I do all my editing. I am the producer, 100% of this show. I will decide after I listen back, what do I want to call this episode? I either want to call it “be your own cruise director,” which my best friend, Taryn, from childhood says it all the time. She has said it on this podcast. You can find her on at least three episodes, and I’ll link those in the show notes too. We talk about this a little bit, but it’s never the whole point of the episode is be your own cruise director. And another way of saying that is don’t wait for invitations.

If you’ve been listening to this podcast for a while, you know that a lot of times I come to that conclusion. Don’t wait for invitations. Be the planner, be your own cruise director. And I say it all kinds of ways, but it’s all saying the same thing, which is if you are unhappy with your social life in any stage, teen, younger than teens, which you know, if you’re a parent, you might need to help your kid with that.

Twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, seventies. I spoke to somebody the other day who is 78 years old and wanted to talk a little bit about changes in her social life that she would like to see. same answer, same message, same problem. And the issue could be manyfold. It could be that you are sitting home a lot with nothing to do. It could be that your kid is sitting home a lot with nothing to do, and this assumes you want to do something.

Of course, if you are perfectly happy at home, then this is not a problem for you, so that doesn’t apply to you. But if you wish that you had someone with you, a friend, you wish you had more people to call to do things with, then that’s what we’re talking about here. Perhaps you do have people to do stuff with, but you’re feeling like it’s not the right chemistry.

Something’s off. You don’t enjoy yourself. You kind of find yourself wanting to cancel. You’re relieved when your friends cancel, and I don’t mean because you have a. A kind of social anxiety and therefore you kind of wanna go out, but you don’t wanna go. I’m saying you do wanna go out, but when you have a plan with these particular people, you find you have a sense of relief when they cancel.

Okay, well maybe these are the wrong people. So we said that maybe you don’t have people to go out with, maybe you do have people to go out with, but something’s off. I say something’s off because it could be any number of things.

Maybe they don’t treat you that nicely when you go. They always invite you.It’s not an issue that you don’t get the invitation. Maybe you’re always invited but you just don’t feel quite part of it. When you actually are at dinner with these people, they kind of turn their shoulder just so that you’re a little bit outside the conversation. Maybe if they don’t physically do that, there’s an emotional turning of the shoulder, and if you’ve been a part of that, then you know exactly what I’m talking about. It’s like you’re there, you’re sitting there, they put you on the group text, you’re 100% included, but you’re not, when you’re there in the moment, you don’t really feel included.

In that case, an episode like this applies to you. It’s about creating your own activities, you being the cruise director, I think about how if kids are starting a new school, let’s say, and the school issues their list of fall activities, so you get the email, here’s what we offer in the fall. If you’re a theater person, we do a play, but we don’t do a musical until the spring and there’s all kinds of options, but maybe you don’t see the thing you want.

This is what I’m trying to get people to avoid. I don’t want us to be sitting here receiving the list activities that are offered. I’m just using activities here as a metaphor for friends. And then you look at the list and you go, eh, there’s really nothing here for me. I’m not going to do anything.

And it’s like, no, if you don’t see the thing you want, then you create the thing. You don’t just wait for the list to come to you.

One of my favorite writers is David Sedaris. I have talked about him before, and I’m going to actually read the same paragraph that I read almost two years ago. It was a very early episode about popularity I just love this essay so much.

I’m obviously not going read the whole essay. I don’t even think I could, there’s probably copyright issues with that, but I can read a few paragraphs. I think sometimes the reason people get stuck in a rut with their friends is maybe at one point they were really happy to be included with a certain group, this was the group they wanted to be part of. They either worked hard or waited a long time or whatever the case to get in with these particular people. And I’m talking about adults too. This is not just for teenagers.

This particular passage is about when David Sedaris was 12 years old. So in that case we’re talking about, you know, like a tween, but he is writing it from an adult perspective to point out that adults do this too, and the “this” I’m referring to is kind of like overly focusing on one group of people. In this case we’re talking about because of popularity. But for the purposes of this episode, I also want you to think of it as you’re just focusing on this group. Because that’s what you’ve always done and it’s easy and it’s kind of the lowest hanging fruit. These are the people who include you in stuff. And so therefore, eh, like why start over? So let me read it and then we’re gonna talk about it. It’s very short. It is an essay called Consider the Stars. It is in David Sederis’s collection called Dress Your Family in Corduroy and Denim.

I have a first edition. I’ve been a fan for a long time.This is from 2004. And I love the way Sederis starts. His essays, they seem to be about one thing, but they usually are about another. He’s just very clever. By the way, I’m also a writing instructor. I lead writing groups in Minneapolis. I say it at the beginning of some episodes. I don’t always say it. I’ve been doing that since. 2015. It’s a long time. So I love essays and nonfiction.

Essays are some of my favorite things to read and to write myself. Okay, so the essay begins, he’s talking about how his husband, Hugh, every night, goes out and looks at the stars. David, for the purpose of this essay, he relates it to celebrities and he says, if there are in fact billions of other civilizations, where does that leave our celebrities? He was thinking about how many stars are out there and he kind of talks about how if there’s other planets, then a celebrity on Earth is so meaningless.

So continuing in David’s words, “If worth is measured on a sliding scale of recognition, what would it mean if we were all suddenly obscure? How would we know our place? In trying to make sense of this, I think back to a 1968 Labor Day celebration at the Raleigh Country Club. I was at the snack bar listening to a group of sixth graders who lived in another part of town and sat discussing significant changes in their upcoming school year. According to a girl named Janet, neither Pam Dobbins nor JJ Jackson had been invited to the 4th of July party, hosted by the Duffy twins, who later told Kath Matthews, that both Pam and JJ were out of the picture as far as the seventh grade was concerned. Totally, completely out. Janet said, poof. I didn’t know any Pam Dobbins or JJ Jackson, but the reverential tone of Janet’s voice sent me into a state of mild shock. Call me naive, but it had simply never occurred to me that other schools might have their own celebrity circles. At the age of 12. I thought the group at EC Brooks was, if not nationally known, than at least its own private phenomenon, why else would our lives revolve around it so completely.

I myself was not a member of my school’s popular crowd, but I recall thinking that whoever they were, Jana’s popular crowd couldn’t begin to compete with ours. But what if I was wrong? What if I’d wasted my entire life comparing myself with people who didn’t really matter? Try as I might. I still can’t wrap my mind around it.”

And he continues to go on and talk about junior high things, and comes back to Hugh and the stars and he always kind of wraps it up nicely. And again, I talked about that same exact passage back in episode 16 on this idea that there is no such thing as the popular group. Really, I also purposely am choosing this episode in August and back to school time because I think these are issues that come up a lot for preteens, teens, and even the parents when we’re in a back to school season. But it actually applies even if you’re not a parent.

This idea that you’re waiting around for someone to invite you to something is just dangerous. It is the recipe for loneliness. I always wish I could send this exact essay to a lot of the people who write letters to me. I use some of those letters in my substack newsletter, dearnina.substack.com, but I can’t use them all, and the letters come in two forms. Some of it’s about the popularity thing, but it’s also about not feeling included, not feeling invited.

I’m always curious. Why people are waiting to be included by a certain group. Why this group? Or I get letters from parents who sort of feel put out that a friend of theirs has a kid who is not inviting their kid to stuff. And again, I ask the same question, why are you and your kid waiting to be invited by that group? This overemphasis on a certain group is just a bad idea and my answer tends to be some version of empowering you as the adult and adults, empowering kids and teens to not wait to get invited to be the planner, and probably not with these kids, if there’s a bunch of people who are continually not inviting you to stuff. It could be for any number of reasons.

I’m actually doing an entire episode about that. I already recorded it. It’s kind of spicy. I haven’t been ready to post it yet.It’s with the fabulous Danielle Bayer Jackson, who had an amazing viral TikTok about reasons you might not have been invited to something. We talked about those reasons. I need to be a little more brave before I post it because I think it’s going to be hard for some people to hear, because many of us could fall into some of these reasons we weren’t invited to stuff. I identified myself in several of them. So it’s, you know, equal opportunity, cringe on that episode.

You’ll have to come back to hear that one. Let’s not focus on why someone’s not inviting you. This is about, you issue the invitation. You hear a bunch of people are trying a new restaurant and you’re kind of  annoyed that you weren’t invited. You put together a couple people to go out to this restaurant.

I do think jealousy is often just a cue for what do you wish you were doing more of. The place is secondary to the idea of having something to do with people. People who will make you feel part of something, people you enjoy being with. I will tell you, I have learned so much in doing this podcast how few people are comfortable being the planner and so that if you could just say to yourself, I’m going to be the planner. I’m not saying it’s easy, it’s hard to put yourself out there. But if you could get used to the idea that even if you don’t like it, even if it’s not easy, that you are going be the one who decides if you are doing something on a Saturday night.

I always use Saturday night as an example because that’s really the main night that I go out and do anything. But don’t be afraid to plan ahead. Give several dates as an option for people. Don’t be afraid to cast a wide net and invite a lot of people. Maybe only three can come. I wish that more of the people who write to me would see how powerful it is to view yourself as the one who makes the plans. It completely flips the script.

Because even if you’re the one who’s reaching out a lot, and then, trust me, I hear a lot from that side too. I’m always the one who reaches out. I had an entire episode dedicated to it. It was one of my earliest ones. Number three.

I know that it is a pain if you are the only one reaching out. Can you trust me that most people are bad at it? It’s a question of organization. It might be a question of desire. Not everybody is as interested in having plans. This episode is for the person who wants to be going out more and doing stuff with people.

The power is in you. I can just hear the voice of somebody emailing me right now and saying, this is all great, Nina, but I have no one to ask. If I had people to ask, this wouldn’t be a problem. I disagree with you. Even if you have people to ask, this is still a problem because a lot of people are still waiting for invitations, whether they have people to ask or not. But there are probably more people than you think. There’s so many people out there who are lonely or sick of the people they’re hanging out with. They would love to be invited to do something else with, somebody new. Somebody that you loosely know who you enjoy running into. Is there somebody out there that you see once in a while when you’re running a certain errand at a certain store. I know sometimes I run into the same person over and over again and we always kinda laugh and we’re like, oh my God, we should do this on purpose sometime. Neither of us have done it, but we could. It would be that kind of person you would reach out to that person and say, Hey, maybe instead of accidentally running into each other, let’s purposely hang out . Are you free one of these two days?

The same Danielle, Bayer Jackson and my friend Anna Goldfarb, they both have books about friendship coming out in 2024, so it’s Anna Goldfarb and Danielle Bayer Jackson. They both talk about, I think it originated with Danielle and then Anna quotes Danielle— it’s sort of an insular world, this friendship world— as saying that when you’re inviting someone to do something, the more specific the better.

Anna is doing a really fun 30 days of friendship on Threads, and she addressed this recently. And I loved her tip number four.  She said, frame invitation in a way friends can quickly say yes to. Good example. I mean, I’m adding a couple words. A good example might be, let’s get together sometime just to get the conversation started. A better example would be, Want to get together this week? The best example would be, Want to get Thai food on Thursday House, 6:00 PM at a place near your house? Make it easy for people to say yes when you are inviting people to do something with you.

I like the idea of casting a wide net because if you are really determined to go out on a particular day, because that’s when you are free, great. You are the cruise director, you get to decide what the day is when you’re the planner. If it’s for someone’s birthday, obviously you need to do it around several people’s schedules, but if it’s just a random night out and you’re trying to just have more things to do, then by all means you say, I’m putting together a dinner on Thursday.Love to see whoever can come and you send the email or the text or Snapchat, whatever you’re doing, to get together with friends. It is so that you know you have something to do that night and whoever can come, can come. So maybe you asked four people, but only two can come. Wonderful. Now you’re at a dinner with two people. That’s just fine.

I know I am really overly focusing on dinner. I think that’s because that’s what I tend to do when I am doing anything with friends. But maybe you want to get tickets to a show. To a sporting event. Or maybe you just want to plan a walk, and you put it out to a few people and say, Hey, I’m going to this path at this time on this day. I’d love if you’d like to join me. You should plan to walk at that time no matter what. And if you’re by yourself, then you’re going to put in your AirPods and you’re gonna listen to a podcast or some great music or a book. But if someone can join you, wonderful.

These are just many different ways of going out there and being the cruise director, I couldn’t possibly give every example of different things people like to do with friends, because I have all ages of people who listen to this podcast and different kinds of interests and tastes but you know what you like to do. That’s the beauty of being the cruise director. You’re putting together the itinerary and it doesn’t have to please everybody. You have an audience of one, as far as I’m concerned. It’s stuff you want to do, the people who are also interested in those things and want to join you will be your people.

So in summary, two years into this podcast, I would say the idea of being your own cruise director would solve a lot of the problems of the letters I get. Back to the David Sedaris thing, I really feel strongly that people get stuck focusing on the same group of people and over and over again because they think this group of people matters in a global sense in some way. That it’s like a network that they need in order to feel accepted by society or their own town, their own school. There’s so many other people out there to hang out with who would love an invitation and so go out there and issue one.

I can’t wait to hear if you take this upon yourself. It’s been such a great two years. It’s. I’m excited for a whole new school year to start. I have two kids starting an entirely new school. Well, three really. My oldest is going on a gap year. He graduated from high school and he’s leaving for a year. It’s not really a school, but it’s a different adventure. And then he’ll be going to college, so that’ll be a new school. So we have a lot of newness in the house. I have four kids and only one of them is just in the same school doing the same thing as usual. So that’s a big deal. We have a lot of newness around here and trust me, I’m telling my kids the same thing you don’t wait for invitations. You issue the invitations. Invite people over, invite people to do stuff.

We’re not gonna sit around in a new school, in a new school year waiting for people to invite us to do stuff. No way. We are out there doing the inviting. It’s just a more powerful emotional position to be in, to not be waiting.

Wishing everybody a wonderful school year if you don’t have kids, the same for you. I feel like that rhythm of fall, it’s coming. You can sort of feel it in the very early morning and the very late night. It’s starting to cool down a little, and a new season is always a good time to try something new.

Before I go. I haven’t done a reminder in a couple weeks. I’m hovering at 143 ratings on Apple Podcasts. That’s pretty good. I’m happy with that, but I’d love to have more. This is one of those cases where more is more. Not Less is more. This is more, is more. So if you know how to get onto Apple Podcasts or you could Google it or something. There’s a million YouTubes that show you how to do this. Just Google how to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It’s not hard. It seems hard. There’s a reason that people have to Google it, but once you have seen someone show you for 20 seconds, it’s not hard from that point. But I understand why if you haven’t done it, it’s because you don’t know how.

I totally get it. I had to Google it once upon a time to know how to do it. It’s really not intuitive. I don’t know why Apple makes it so unintuitive, but if you can figure out how to do it and leave five stars and leave a written review, that would be wonderful. Thank you.

I’ve already said it once on this episode, but I have to say it again to close us out. I hope to see you next week because when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around. Bye.