Welcome to Dear Nina, conversations about friendship. I’m your host, Nina Badzin. I have been writing about friendship for over a decade and podcasting about it for almost five years. The time flies, and yet there is still always so much to talk about in this topic. What I love about today’s episode with Mara Smith and Kim Holstein, who are both founders and leaders of startup beverage companies is that they made this career pivot in midlife that they are heads of what could be competitive companies and our friends and lift each other up anyway and have gotten a lot of benefit in their lives out of that friendship.

And oftentimes we talk in the show whether it’s in the Facebook group at Dear Nina, the group on the substack@dearnina.substack.com, I tend to focus more on sort of extracurricular things you could be due to making friends hobbies I don’t talk a ton about [00:01:00] business as much.

And the truth is, I myself have made a lot of friends through writing, through podcasting, through networks but I don’t go to an office, so sometimes it doesn’t seem as obvious to me. But that is happening. And I should mention that more. it doesn’t matter how old you are.

One of the ways we do meet people is through work. And if you can choose to find other people even in your same exact industry who could potentially be competition, but instead you make the choice to collaborate your social life and your work life could be even richer, more fulfilling, Let me tell you about these founders, Mara and Kim, two separate companies.

Kim Oster Holstein is a respected leader in the food and beverage industry with over 29 years of experience. She’s the co-founder and president of Twisted Alchemy, and she has transformed the hospitality and home mixology markets with award-winning 100%. Cold pressed juices distributed nationwide. And Mara [00:02:00] Smith is the founder of Inspiro Tequila and a former attorney, corporate strategist, and stay at home mom for 16 years before she started the company.

In 2020, Mara launched Inspiro with the mission of creating a premium tequila while amplifying female voices in the spirits industry. I appreciated a lot of things about Kim and Mara’s friendship. That they’re in slightly different businesses within the same business.

One is an alcohol product and one is not, that could become its own thing, but they don’t let it, that they are trying to get into some of the same retail spots. They help each other out. isn’t that a beautiful thing?

I actually never met Kim and Mara before this conversation, but their companies were co-sponsors of my very first live event last year in Chicago. I didn’t know them. There was a connection through Kim’s company first and, that led to Mara. they didn’t know me at all and they didn’t know what this dear Nina was or what this event was gonna be. They added a [00:03:00] lot to the event by having their be really fun cocktails there. So thank you to Kim and Mara for that.

This episode has nothing to do with that. I just wanted to let you know that they really do walk the walk of supporting women and taking a chance on women businesses they are really experienced with events.

For me, this was just a first attempt at something and it really was a fun, night and I will be having another event in Minneapolis this summer that will be quite similar. So keep an eye on your social media for news about tickets to the July 29th event in Minneapolis, and I bring you, Mara and Kim,

Nina: .It’s so great to be here.

Kim: Thanks for having us.

Mara: I would love to hear how the two of you eventually met, even though you are in related but different businesses, even though you were in periods of your life where I am sure you’ve both had good friends already. Potentially you could have been pitted against each other as competition.

And that’s really what this episode is about, Making the choice [00:04:00] to collaborate with somebody who could be your competition is a message that everyone really needs to hear of all ages, because this could be an issue in teen friendships too. It really can. So I’m excited that we have your story to share with the listeners.

We’re gonna start with Mara, of how you got into the tequila business and leading up to the moment you met Kim. And then we’ll have Kim tell her version.

Kim: Perfect. Yes. I often wonder how I got into this business as well. I was a lawyer at a large law firm many, many years ago. I then transitioned to work in corporate strategy, uh, at McDonald’s corporation, and then was a stay home mom for over 16 years. So three kids later. and I knew I wanted to start my own company. I decided it was going to be a tequila company pretty much for two reasons. One, I’ve been a tequila drinker for years and discovered everything I was drinking, contained, undisclosed additives. , I did not know they used sweeteners, including aspartame, coloring, glycerin, and tequila.

And the second thing was that all these women kept telling me they’re tequila drinkers. And I just thought, well, if all these women drink tequila, [00:05:00] why do brands not focus on this consumer? So I set out to create an additive free clean tequila brand, that really spoke directly to these thoughtful female consumers with a craft high quality tequila.

And I wanted it to come from a female perspective. So. We’re distilled, owned and led by all women. how I got to meet Kim is that basically when we finally, you know, I started this right before COVID and we finally started getting out and being able to go to events. One of the first events I went to was for naturally Chicago Network.

Here in Chicago, it’s one of my first in-person events and they asked if I want to, offer tequila at the bar and mix with this company, this brand, twisted Alchemy. So I started doing research and discovered Kim and I was like so excited ’cause I actually had remembered her from her prior brand. I knew about her, uh, brand and I’m sure she’ll tell you about that.

She sold before that. so I was. Really excited about the opportunity and that was the first time we were at this like really busy bar on a rooftop of Vito Proteins headquarters here serving [00:06:00] drinks and mixing drinks together.

Mara: Thank you and Kim.

Kim: I started in advertising had a crazy idea , of a pretzel company, I met my now husband, then boyfriend at a bookstore, and we started to make soft pretzels in our kitchen. That led to, Kim and Scott’s Gourmet Pretzels. we had that company, we, we started, built it and then we sold it after 17 years.

after selling in 2012, I knew that , my passion was. Having an idea and building it, and it took a while to get there, but Twisted Alchemy started with the inspiration of a margarita. My husband was a bartender in Paris and had squeezed way too many lime and had a vision to.

end the squeeze for bartenders in hospitality, at bars and restaurants and hotels. And so we used HPP technology, which is pressure instead of heat. So you maintain the enzymes of the fruits, taking the fruits from tree to bottle. we started selling in bars and restaurants. that was in [00:07:00] 2019.

And then COVI hit we lost all our customers in one day. We decided to take the bar home and elevate the spirits of people at home who were crafting cocktails and, playing in the kitchen, in the bar. that’s my twisted alchemy journey. as far as meeting Mara, yes, we met on the rooftop, of this event with naturally Chicago. We really discovered that, uh, I think it’s just being founders, women founders, and having a lot in common. And we discovered other circles that we share and it was the start of a really great mix, high quality tequila, juice, and a great friendship.

Nina: That’s just cool from a business perspective. You guys are like scientists basically when you’re talking about, the high pressure and, and Mar is talking about all the different ingredients , and both of you, it’s, really just a cool business story. But of course, we’re here to talk about friendship and I hear from so many women of all ages who meet somebody and they wanna become friends.

But they don’t really know how to do it without being, A lot of people use the [00:08:00] word weird and, and I’m always like pushing them like, no, this is how you make friends. There’s nothing weird about making a first step. Somebody has to make a first step. So you meet at this Naturally Chicago event. You see, you have all these things in common.

Mainly, , the business number one, because that is a huge part of both of your lives and being entrepreneurs and founders both in the beverage industry. What happened next? What was the step someone took who took the first brave

Mara: Well, I think we realized we’re in

a lot of similar circles . We had mixed together maybe at a few more events. But then Kim invited me, which is crazy ’cause I like actually went across the country to this, she was doing an event, she’s active in a Northwestern, alumni group.

And that’s when we realized we both also went to Northwestern. I went there for law school, and that was all the way in LA and mixed cocktails together.

It just kept evolving and we did a lot of events and this was very fortuitous on my part Kim is, really active and was on the board of this JWI, Jewish Women International, and she nominated [00:09:00] me to be a woman to watch for 2024.

Here we’re really involved in like so many different organizations that overlap. and I feel like that was the point where it was way more friendship than business friends.

Nina: Kim, do you remember it that way too? what made you reach out tomorrow to go on this trip? ’cause traveling together. Yeah, that’s a, big step.

Kim: Well, absolutely. When we also connected, with Northwestern, with our C 100 alumni organization in la. It was another opportunity in person with, just a group of inspiring women gathering and to craft cocktails together and share, I think that too just cemented this friendship of different circles and, , common experiences that we share as founders.

but other circles beyond our business, that is our friendship. And then to JWI, when I definitely thought of Mara and, her incredible journey and her [00:10:00] voice, I find her truly inspiring.

Nina: One thing I find really interesting about your relationship with each other is that your businesses, while you do have in common, that you founded these businesses, that you both founded them as a second or third career after a break for you, Mara, is that in theory on paper, the businesses could be in contrast to each other. In some ways there could be some different messaging and can, guys talk about that

Mara: I mean, maybe ’cause I just ignore all of Kim’s dry January emails to talk about making mocktails instead of cocktails. We just, just try to ignore any of that’s happening,

Kim: Well, and you know, we’re a non ALK company, so we’re all pure juices. so there are those places where it could be competitive. I mean, it’s the non ALK versus tequila and margaritas. I think we have found the places we collaborate and that’s where we can work together.

We can craft cocktails that where the juice and the tequila work really well together, and I think [00:11:00] that’s the foundation of our friendship. and also being really vulnerable as founders, we’ll call or text or email, uh, you know, Mara, Hey, how are you handling this issue? How are you dealing with demos?

What are the tools you’re using as you’re navigating retail? Like how we can support each other and know that there’s an abundance of opportunities we can collaborate and we can both build really exciting businesses.

Nina: It flies in the face in a way that I, love to hear where, you know, people will have all these general things to say about women being so competitive and rooting against each other and not being there for each other. ’cause you’re in similar businesses in that you both, I assume, are trying to get in some of the same retail accounts, and do you help each other?

Is, or is that feeling, or maybe you’ve seen this out there, uh, with other women, other businesses, this concept, there’s a pie and there’s only so many slices, or you can act like the pie grows. And so if you share a [00:12:00] contact with somebody, are you giving up, a business opportunity of your own? It’s like, no, you’re just sharing, but not everybody sees that way. How has that been for you, Mara? I.

Mara: there’s definitely a lot of comparison that goes on in general, we always look at, everything’s out there in the open. Social media for me, LinkedIn, you’re constantly always like, how are they doing such a great job? So we do overlap. We’re in a lot of the same retailers in the Chicagoland area, , we’re both in Jewel asco. We’re both in Whole Foods, we’re in the same retailer. So there’s always a thing of like, oh, what do you have? That’s what’s working successfully for you. But I think I look at it as, beyond a comparison, how can we learn from each other?

’cause I’m like, okay, if I see you’re successful in this one area. Like, yes, I’m

comparing, and I wish we could be doing better in that one store or one chain. But I think we look at it more like, okay, what are you finding effective? what’s helping? And because we’re open to, sharing information and resources, and I think that’s the big difference.

That’s where maybe sometimes, again, kind of a bad reputation that, but I, I happen to be fortunate that I have a lot of women like that in my life [00:13:00] who are willing to share resources and what’s working. And I’m a big believer in peer to peer mentoring as opposed to like, we both could hire a bunch of consultants who come in and tell us exactly how it should work at retail, but we’re both in it On the ground in it, trying to make it work. And I think that’s the most valuable resource is getting it from one another.

Nina: That’s a really good point. You could have all these, I’m sure obviously you both have people on your teams who work, but to have someone you really trust who is as high up in their business as you are in your business, and yes, how did you do that? How’d you get in that store? How do you have so many followers?

You how is it working for you? Social media, you know, all these different things. Why should everyone have to start from scratch? But a lot of people wouldn’t see it that way. You know? They would see it as competition. So I think that’s fantastic.

Kim: I love how Mara, spoke about studying, others and how we can see something that Mara might be doing and and I can see, wow, she’s got a great voice on LinkedIn. She’s really now. Navigating these women [00:14:00] founder communities, I can learn from her. It is that peer-to-peer mentoring it’s also being vulnerable and authentic in where we are. we have no problem saying this is not working in this account. I’m struggling here. this is not effective. I feel failure here. it’s like lifting each other versus a competitive energy. we can collaborate, we can share, we can study, and there’s enough for everyone.

Mara: And, I would say if you think about it, someone who really understands

what you’re in, so you can have lots of friends for different purposes,

Friends from different areas of my life, they’re not gonna understand the retail landscape or how hard it’s to have a product and retail and figure out how to get, improved velocities.

they’re great for other things and other advice, it is totally different and

that’s why I think it, you know, and that you can’t be vulnerable and like the face you have to put out there like yes, active on LinkedIn, social media, but what do you have to put out there?

And then what you’re feeling behind the scenes and being able to talk to someone and be real about it, I think [00:15:00] are, two different things.

Nina: I bet that there are a lot of female founders out there who are very lonely ’cause they don’t have a friendship like that. Have you seen that? Do you get that sense?

Mara: I think entrepreneurship is a very lonely journey. Kim is lucky because she has a partner, her partner in life is her partner. And this but in general, I’m a solo entrepreneur. It is lonely. having people to go to, is essential because if not, I would really feel like I was kind of like out on an island by myself.

Kim: I think there are so many more networks this time around in this business versus my pretzel business, we didn’t have networks of women to share and ask, Hey, can I get your advice on this? Wow, I’m really struggling with this. So I think the world is so different and there’s great ways to find those circles. I really lean on those friendships. the worlds we share,

Nina: Are there ever times that you’re both up for the same kind of award within the industry? Is that a thing? I don’t know your industry, so I’m just

Mara: I don’t feel like [00:16:00] we’ve pitched against it. I do a lot of pitch competitions and I think Kim’s smarter and stays out of those. Like I,

Nina: It sounds scary.

Kim: I think you’re brave Mara.

Mara: I feel like instead I have her in the audience cheering me on,

And it’s always scary. So knowing I have a friendly face, like I literally will not forget that in at the naturally Chicago one. I was looking at the audience and saw Kim and having someone like beaming Emmy while I’m there, like just is, brings a comfort level.

But listen, there are plenty of things she can get chosen for, let’s say they’re doing, demos or allowing people to sample product. Often alcohol brands are not included because they’re

they’re not allowed. So there could be a

many of those situations where Kim would have the opportunity and there’s a marketplace or a demo or

things, and she can go, she can, demo her product.

She can sell her product live at, somewhere. I can’t even sell direct to any consumers.

I think you could always see also that like there could be opportunities that she has. That

I don’t have. but I wouldn’t look at [00:17:00] that as a competitive, I was looking at that as I still usually like to go to those things and walk the floor and see the brands that are there and, and support and taste test.

Nina: You know, something I’m wondering actually, thinking about the different kinds of beverages You have, Kim, do you get

approached to do events with other tequila companies?

Kim: We, um, you know, from time to time, definitely collaborate with other tequila brands. I will say that in those brands, I don’t have a relationship with the founder in the way that I do with Mara. And being here in Chicago, being local, I think that’s a special connection. So I think there’s no other brand that we partner with at the level that we do, I think it’s collaborative, it’s creative. You know, we’re coming up with all these cocktails tied to different events that might have a theme. we can really build it in a way that’s so unique. Whereas other tequila brands, they might ask for juice and you know, that’s a part of building awareness, but.

There’s something special beyond that, incredibly high quality [00:18:00] tequila and her beautiful bottle and then really it’s her passion as a, female founder in our connection. So it’s different.

Nina: And Mara, I assume you get approached by other mixers.

Mara: We do. And so first I’m gonna

start with this. I’m too transparent, so I don’t actually

mix with anything I don’t like. So I taste test everything beforehand. So that eliminates a lot of, brands because I literally won’t make anything if I don’t like it myself. but I think they’re different use cases.

there are different types of mixers. There are, you know, I have a powder cocktail company. It’s very different than a fresh pressed juice. And often we can even add a fresh pressed juice with the powder mixer. If we look at everything as being competitive or if you narrow it down, there are a lot of mixers, a lot of them are at ready cocktail mixes, they’re made into cocktails or they’re carbonated mixers.

But if you look at when you narrow it down fresh pressed juices, we’re really not [00:19:00] using a lot of other ones and nothing that would be here or locally owned, or we’d be doing like events and activations locally with.

Nina: Okay. Yeah, no, that makes sense.

What else would the two of you want people to know about friendship in this atmosphere of business where you’re not in the same business but you’re in related businesses and stuff to teach each other?

Kim: I think it’s a powerful time to seek out networks where you can find friends that you can, support each other, on the journey of whether you’re in business or whatever you might be. That there’s so many more networks or organizations that are more accessible today, I know for me. It’s friendships like Mauras that help me navigate a crazy world of trying to build a business right now. I mean, they’re from tariffs to all the pricing issues we face and issues and hospitality and I mean, it’s a wild ride. It’s not [00:20:00] easy sure makes a difference to have friends you can count on.

Mara: for me, I’d say two things like. Be open to maybe making friends a little later in life, you feel like you have all your friends. Maybe you need, I have everyone from my grade school friends growing up, high school, law school, my kids, I have different level age kids, you know, so all of their, friends’, parents or from their activities.

But I think being open to still, Making friends later in life and being open to that. And also looking at the potential, I don’t love the word networking. Often we think oh well it’s business, it’s business networking. And I look at it as opportunities to also make connections and real connections of people you’re gonna keep connected to.

And talking to the become friends, I become friends with people that reach out to me on LinkedIn, and become friends, they’re in town, we meet. I think kinda looking at that, potential and opportunity and not closing it off. There are people who may meet that you’re just thinking is a business relationship, but that being open to [00:21:00] actually having long lasting friendships with them, which I’m so fortunate because Kim and I then realized we intersect in all of these different ways.

and also not thinking, you’re like kind of done. I’m done. my kids are, you know, I have two that already graduate college. Like I’m done. I don’t need anybody else. And I don’t really think that’s true because I think there’s so many different friends for different purposes. it was great for me to realize that, wasn’t just building a business I wasn’t done also building friendships.

Nina: It is so important and I hear from so many people who are at the part of life

where they’re empty nesters They are feeling lonely. They

didn’t maybe have time to invest in friendships, and I’m always trying to

give the message that it’s never too late, but often I’m pushing them towards hobbies and what I love about this episode is yes. It also can be through your business interest and it could be a new business. It doesn’t have to be something you’ve been doing for decades. you’re right that people will feel if, unless they move. sometimes you move to a new town and then now you are very much thrust into a need to make some new local friends. But if you don’t

move, it can be tempting to stay stagnant,

[00:22:00] even though it’s

so good to evolve, whether

it’s vocationally or just through your hobbies.

I really try to push people to always be doing something new and I don’t push business enough. But I think that’s a good point too. It doesn’t just have to be a hobby.

Mara: Right. even if you’re working in a corporation, we happen to be founders, startups, but To think that like you have to go and leave and you finish your work at the end of the day and leave and don’t make any real connections. I think that’s like missing an opportunity to actually build relationships with more people.

I always find from every stage of my life, a really small core, great group. I just keep adding on as far as stages. and I don’t know why that would ever stop.

Nina: it shouldn’t you know, social connections. I mean, my entire podcast is based on that is the key to, I mean, all the studies tell you that it’s the key to healthy, mental and physical longevity.

Kim: It really is, it’s the heart of staying young. and I wanted to circle back to MA’s, mentioning about the word networking. I just really agree with that. And while there are [00:23:00] networks that you can join and that’s how you might get in, I do see them as organizations for connection.

And I think that that’s the shift is. That we have our, personal paths and our work and it’s all weaved together. there’s a lot of opportunities to connect with women at different stages. I also wanted to add in, I have found it really empowering, to connect with younger women. Some of the women in their twenties they might have started a business or, or they might be in an in another industry, but, I learned from them. They mentor me. I mean, it’s just so cool I think it’s fun to have friendships of all ages

Nina: For sure. It goes both ways. Yeah. The mentoring does absolutely go both ways. I’ve made a lot of younger friends in the past, I’d say five years, and it’s enriched my life so much. Especially as some of my older friends. I live in Minnesota, it’s cold here. I also have friends who are older and some of them are gone for the winter now, they leave.

They go to Arizona or Florida or [00:24:00] California, they’re gone for, like, I have neighbors I’m friends with. they’re gone for,

six months. That’s a long time.

And so if you don’t have younger friends, you’re gonna

Mara: That’s a strategy I really should make friends with people who have houses and warm places.

Nina: Yes. There you go.

Mara: I should have made that part of my strategy.

Nina: All right, ladies, final word on what makes this kind of friendship work. We’ll start with you, Mara.

Mara: if you’re trying to take a business acquaintance or relationship and then see who you wanna be friends with, I look at it as being value aligned. And the reason this works is because we are both value aligned that we both wanna elevate other

women in business and lift each other up, not just each other, but other women in our communities.

And and I think that’s how I select the people who change from just a business relationship into an actual friendship.

Nina: perfectly said Kim.

Kim: And for me, I think about how the other circles besides our hospitality world, mixing together, [00:25:00] our friendship has evolved because of those circles. Goals that where we share common values and, can grow beyond the fact, okay, we might be in the industry together, but we’re also friends for our common interests, lifting other women, in so many different, places beyond just our work. and that makes a difference.

Nina: I agree. and the two of you spend a lot of time on your businesses. You’ve built these really amazing companies, and why shouldn’t you have the opportunity to also fill that social bucket at the same time even? How wonderful is that? it’s sort of like, why not that’s how I see it. but not everybody does.

So it’s, great that you found each other and other women to lift up. I’m so glad I got to meet the two of you. And I just want the chance to say to your faces I appreciate the two of you lifting up a small, business like mine. The podcast is a business and you were the very first people to sponsor my first event last summer.

So I mean, that was a big deal for me, for you guys, you do a lot of events. for me, it was [00:26:00] huge. It was like the biggest thing I did last summer. So thank you. Thank you.

Mara: Come back again and we’ll, sponsor your next one.

Nina: I actually am doing one in not Chicago, but Minneapolis this summer, and we’ll get in touch on that, so thank

Kim: Oh, we would love that.

Nina: All right, everybody.

I’ll have in the show notes all the ways you can find Mara and her company and Inspiro Tequila and Kim and her company, twisted Alchemy, and as I say, every week, come back next week when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around. Bye.