Nina: [00:00:00] Welcome to Dear Nina: Conversations about Friendship. I am your host, Nina Badzin, writing about friendship for over 13 years now, today’s guest is one of my very best friends and one of the most popular guests on five years of this podcast. That is Rebecca Kotak. So Becs, you can say hi

Rebecca: Hi, Neens. Hi, everybody. Hi, listeners

Nina: Rebecca was on episode 34, which is really a replay of what I think might’ve been, like, episode seven, eight, or nine.

I’m not even gonna look that up, ’cause 34 was the replay of it. It was about our friendship breakup and reconciliation. Those two episodes separately, because they have different titles, so I think SEO searches reach different people in different ways. Those two episodes are two of my most popular episodes five years later, and people find them again and again.

They listen to them. I think it brings people to the podcast. I think it makes people become listeners, like, regular followers. I would love [00:01:00] if you could, well, first tell us exactly who you are and what you do. then let’s reflect on why that episode was so popular. But first, Rebecca Kotok, what do you do?

Rebecca: I am a public school counselor in Montgomery County, Maryland. I’ve been a counselor, I entering my 13th year. Um, it was a career change for me. I went back and got my master’s in school counseling about 13 years ago. before that, I was home with my kids, and before that, I worked in fundraising events and public relations.

but this is really my calling, and this is, my fifth baby ’cause I have four actual children, none of whom are babies anymore. so I’m the mom of four, the wife of one, the dog mom of one, and school counselor to 500 lovely children in Montgomery County, Maryland

Nina: Rebecca and I are friends from college. We met freshman year at Washington university in…

Rebecca: 30 years ago

Nina: Oh, my gosh. our episode, number 34 again, for people listening and wanna go back to it, is about how we were the best, best of friends, and [00:02:00] then senior year, it was tense for all the reasons.

You can go back to that episode and listen. We won’t rehash it all. We did not speak for a few years, you weren’t even at my wedding, . We reconciled at our mutual bestie Julie’s wedding. Shout-out to Julie, it’s been smooth sailing ever since.

We’ve been friends much longer than we haven’t. Why do you think that that episode is so popular still?

Rebecca: Um, why do I think it resonated? I think there’s a lot of shame around friendship breakups. I think people wonder what it reflects about them. I don’t know. I mean, I can only speak for myself, so I had shame around it, um, so I can imagine other people did, and the fact that it resonated.

often friendship breakups stay broken up, and so I think the fact that, like, we came back together, I mean, it took a lot on your part, on my part, and then collectively, you know, so much has to happen. We weren’t living in the same place when we got back together. Um, so we really both had to want it.

I think honestly, Nina, your podcast really celebrates friendship even when you’re working on all the minutia, and I think our [00:03:00] episode is one big celebration of, true friendship. I love how we met. I love it more than the story of how I met my husband, who I love dearly, but how

Nina: It’s a me cute.

Rebecca: it’s a meet cute. It was love at first sight. I mean, we both remember my opening line. “Oh, you’re from Island Park. I was born in Island Park.” And then we didn’t separate for two full years, and we were each other’s person. Um, you described it so well, like in the way that that happens in college when you’re away from home.

So I think it’s a celebration of true love really. It’s a celebration of friendship

Nina: And you know, there’s other friendship podcasts that have come and gone, some still around, where they almost every episode… This is no shade to them, it’s just I don’t do it this way, where every episode is somebody’s real friendship. Not the host necessarily. they bring on two guests. I get a lot of pitches like that,

and I always refer them to these other hosts, I like to be collaborative like that in the podcast space. But it’s not for me. It worked for our episode, but I actually find that listeners, at least of Dear Nina, they are not necessarily coming to hear these big success stories of other people.

I’m always like, [00:04:00] “How is this going to help the listener?” when people pitch me. People don’t come to this show to only celebrate friendship. They want to work through problems and make their friendships better and easier, and that is why today’s topic is so on the money. When you mentioned to me that you had these thoughts as we’re approaching 50, me before you, because I’m just old in the grade and you’re young in the grade.

There are so many things we know about friendship now as we approach 50 that we did not know in our 20s or our 30s or our 40s, for that matter.

one thing you’ve discovered, as you told me when you had this idea in mind, is some of this can’t be forced because it happens with age and experience. But I feel like what we want to try to do is help people maybe get to a frame of mind where they could not have to wait all the way until 50.

Wouldn’t that be nice? And maybe it won’t work, but we can certainly at least try

Rebecca: Basically, the way I described it to you initially, and I think you understood ’cause you know me so well, I noticed a shift as I turned 40 just about not giving an F anymore, and [00:05:00] I think that was, like, a common thing that people talk about, but I did notice that as I turned 40. And now that I turned 50, I notice something in the way that it shows up in friendships, which is a softening. it’s not specifically a friendship-related phenomenon.

I actually think it’s a perspective-related phenomenon, actually an aging-related phenomenon where– And there is science behind it. I learned after I started feeling it. I started going back to my books and researching and remembering all these theories. So basically, the way I would describe it is, as we get older, for many different reasons, and, um, I think we’re gonna get into those, life has just humbled me and many of us.

because of that and because of, of the way that time, maybe a bit more time is behind us than is in front of us. Not like we’re 90, but at the same time, we’re not exactly spring chickens. And so I do think that, I actually reframe and perceive my friendships past and present differently and more softly and more kindly and more [00:06:00] compassionately and more generous of spirit than I did for really the past 48 years, if you will.

It’s important for me to say what it isn’t. So this isn’t about, “Oh my gosh, I have a huge heart, and I’m opening it up to everyone, and I’m inviting the new mom on the block.” it manifests in quite the opposite, sort of the social pruning that does come along with being close to 50.

That is alive and well with me. I have definitely have less, more meaningful friendships than I did when I was 35. I’m not necessarily reconnecting with people with whom I’ve lost touch with or had a little bit of a rift with. But it’s more about my perspective towards the people in my life, past and present, and about how as I go towards 50, I notice…

It wasn’t really subtle, And it didn’t take effort. It wasn’t like, “Oh, I should really think more positively.” It was just this overwhelming sense of, ” Gosh, my mindset has changed.” And when your mindset changes, the way you experience life changes, and it’s been a really peaceful [00:07:00] and positive change for me, and I just wanted to talk about it and see if it resonates with other people.

Nina: I feel it too, and I’ll be so curious to see how listeners respond because it is a little counter-cultural in a positive way. It’s what I try to have this show be, which is not to do the lowest hanging fruit concept of this person’s, quote-unquote, “toxic,” or this cut-out culture, which is different than cancel culture.

You used the word, um, humbled by life.

I feel that too. Like it takes also a lot of humility to realize I probably don’t know everything in this situation, whatever this is. I had a guest who I love, Ann Imig , I think the title of that episode was, was something about the 10% rule. this idea that if you could hold that that person may be 10% right, the person you’re upset with.

Like there’s just no way they aren’t telling themselves their own story. And this doesn’t mean that

everyone…

Rebecca: it’s, right, so a- apropos to that, it for me, it’s, it’s exactly that. It’s exchanging certainty and the need to be [00:08:00] right for peace and curiosity. it’s instead of rehashing and reliving, it’s releasing.

Nina: Oh, I love that

Rebecca: now I’ll be very clear, boundaries are important, and there are people who have violated those boundaries.

And as a mental health practitioner, I would never advocate a mindset or a theory that says, “Oh, let everybody in.” This is not that. But it’s releasing yourself from the need to keep prosecuting your case. it’s, it’s,

Nina: I’m just laughing ’cause, like, we’re both… if we could have done that, like, it was so perfectly said,

Rebecca: But I also really do think that, okay, this is very cliche, but it has so much meaning. Wherever you are, there you are, and you may not have gotten there. Part of me wonders, you and I did have a lot of just feelings, and if we hadn’t taken that break and had such a dramatic end to it, maybe we wouldn’t be this close.

We’d probably be in touch, but maybe we wouldn’t have been this close. So I, I’m okay with the way it happened ’cause of the way it ended. But when I think back, Nina, like in our 30s and 40s, the friendships that we were making, we were in a stage where we were building. Okay? [00:09:00] We were building our careers, we were building our families. and not everyone was building a career or a family, but whatever we were doing, we were building a reputation, building a life.

Our goals were usually about more, and it didn’t necessarily mean more financially, although it could for some. More kids, more financially, more out of this, more out of life, more adventures.

Well, then life humbles you, right? So things happen to you, to those around you. our cohort, right? So this, all the examples I’m gonna give are not specifically, thank God, about me, but about our cohort. We have birthed children, we have raised children with special needs. We have watched friends’ marriages fall apart.

We’ve watched our own marriages fall apart. We’ve had financial security, financial insecurity. People’s homes have been foreclosed. I mean, all these things have happened to people close to me. Thank God, not all these things to one person, but these are all examples, and I’m sure from your community as well, when you’re in community with people, all these things happen.

God forbid, people have buried a child. You and I recently buried a friend, Jill Smokler. And so all these things have happened, and life [00:10:00] just has a way of humbling you, you know, you’re building, you’re building, you get humbled. I think it just Now that my kids are older, I’ve had this time now to to make meaning of all of that, make meaning of all the striving and the building, and then the humbling, and then where does that kind of leave me?

it leaves me, again, with this feeling that I don’t need to always be right. I don’t need to rehash wrongs. I have more generosity of spirit. I used to, “Oh, I’m going out. I hope I don’t see this person or that person.” And now I see them and it’s like, ” Hey. Wow.” Like you were, in my head, the conversation is, “I bet she was dealing with a lot.

You know, I heard her kid had a really tough time,” or, “I heard her…” You know, or they might say they heard something about me, and in their own mind, right? And I just see these people and it’s like we were in battle together. And now, whether we’ve lost touch or are still in touch, I just have so much, I have more love for people generally.

Not specific people, but generally just for humanity, that everyone is fighting some sort of battle, and you don’t know what that is. And so I [00:11:00] attribute things that happened or perceived slights much less to their character and much more to what they were carrying.

Nina: Oh, that’s beautifully said. I just need to pause on that for a second. that, that’s so well said, and it’s, it is a healthier, and I wanna say easier way to walk around the world. It may not seem like it ’cause it takes some mental work, but it’s much harder on your body, your mind, your other relationships to walk around angry all the time.

But people who aren’t even close to you anymore. what I hear you saying, and I appreciate it, is you don’t have to let every person back in your life who wronged you in some way. It’s more about not focusing on it so much, especially if they’re not good friends of you anymore. If somebody is not close to you anymore and you’re not looking to reconcile, what is the point of walking around so angry at all these people who used to be friends, who aren’t friends or…

And I like to keep it focused on friends, not family, ’cause that’s just like a whole different thing.

Rebecca: So when I thought back on , okay, clinically, sort of like from a brain science, a neuroscience point of view, and I came across two [00:12:00] things that I had forgotten about that I had learned about, in my studies, and one is the, um, the positivity effect. And there is a study, that as people get older, their brain processes positive stimuli more than negative.

So you’re actually more inclined to see things positively. I think about this ’cause, sometimes my mom will say, “Gosh, you guys were just a pleasure every day, and you never fought.” And and I just, sometimes I’ll call my sister and I’m like, “Uh, Mom was really stressed and we had frozen blintzes a lot, right?”

And she’s like, “Yeah.” I’m like, “Okay,” ’cause she’s trying to be all Pollyannish about our childhood. It was great, but… And so but I think that’s part of what it is. It’s not like selective memory, but it’s just focusing more on the positive, and that surprised me when I rediscovered that theory because I’ve always heard, oh, as people get older, they get more entrenched.

And I’m very pleased for me that that hasn’t happened. I’ve become less certain, less entrenched in my views, um, more curious, but definitely [00:13:00] see things more positively. And then the other one is the socio-emotional selectivity theory, But it kinda talks about as we perceive that- the time in front of us , is less than we perceived 10 years ago. I know time in front of us is always less than the day before, I get that. But as we more philosophically understand that we’re entering a different phase, we move from goals of achieving knowledge or attaining success, and more towards goals of making meaning.

and I think you see this writ large, in the world where you have these, like, really wealthy people, and they go to, like, a yoga retreat where they don’t have to talk for three days. And it’s like, you could have done that, but you were chasing all of this stuff. So I think the chasing, it’s not over.

I mean, I still feel very ambitious in my career. I may have a second chapter, you know, of something even bigger. I don’t know. So it’s not about the loss of ambition. But I wouldn’t call it a subtle shift either. It’s like a significant shift from attaining to making meaning. I think that what this shift looks like in friendships is one, reframing and [00:14:00] re-perceiving past situations, . again, it’s not necessarily even having conversations with anybody about those things, but it’s just in your own mind.

Because, I mean, as a therapist, I know that your mind shapes your reality, your mind shapes your behavior, which shapes your interactions, which shapes how you go about your day. just that shift in my mind of it’s not just even letting go of anger, it’s just a more peaceful, more generous of spirit way of looking at things, seeing the positive, seeing, you know, taking the humbling, and what that did.

It allows me to just see my past in a really calm, peaceful way. So that’s one thing, and about friendships, right? So I’ll look at friendships that just may have not gone the way I wanted them to, or I may have some animosity or whatnot, I can let that go and really think more about the positive interactions with that person or the reasons why they may not have been so positive.

it can look like reconciliation. So while that is not the purpose of this, it can look like that. I have found that for me, It’s not big reconciliations like you and I had. I mean, that was pretty [00:15:00] dramatic. It’s more so like I’ll run into somebody who we just kinda drifted, not because of a big rift, but because of a season of friendship kinda ended, the kids aged out of that preschool, or the per- you moved or the person moved or whatnot.

and I’ll see them, and we want to reconnect just for a coffee. It’s not a permanent reigniting of the friendship, it’s reconnecting. And I saw this also when my dad recently passed away, and the people who showed up for shiva. I used to think to myself, and I would see my parents, they’d be going out to someone’s shiva, or they’d be going to a funeral, and I, I was like: Who is this person?

Why do they have meaning to you? Why are you taking time out of your night to go there? And you know, how myopic is that as a kid, right? But I didn’t understand they had this whole universe before kids, when we were little. and to have those deep friendships now, it’s just very meaningful to have people show up for you.

and that has brought me a lot of peace and a lot of comfort at a time that was, really hard

Nina: I love the opportunity to show up for people in that way. That is not a huge commitment, but it’s a meaningful commitment. [00:16:00] Becks, I hear from a lot of people of varying ages, who I do think are walking around with a lot of resentment towards friends who drifted from them in some way with no explanation and, and they are not able to see it as the way you described it earlier, which I thought was really nice and healthy, which not everybody can get there, which is, okay, somebody moved, or our kids moved schools, or, uh, my job got busier, her job got busier.

And instead of seeing that with a matter-of-factness and like a fact of life, they see it as they were abandoned in some way. They put all this time into this friendship, and the other person didn’t meet them.

“I’m putting in this amount. This person didn’t. Now we’re not friends because I decided to test them, and I decided not to text anymore.” And so I mean, we go through periods. You and… I just think of us ’cause it’s great to be able to use a real example where, one of us is texting a lot more than the other, or one of us calling a lot more than the other, and

We have gotten to a point in our friendship where we’re able to just kind of shrug the shoulders on that and be like, “Okay, she’ll get back to me when she can.” It [00:17:00] really is a, I will say, a better way to go through life, a lot less strife. Thank goodness we both have gotten there because we are still friends, and I’m that way with a lot of other friends too, not just with you.

Not everyone. Sometimes you’re giving so, so much that you’re just like, “Okay, that’s too much,” and I talk about that a lot in the podcast. You and I have gotten to that place with each other and with other people perhaps naturally through time. What do you say to people who maybe haven’t gotten there naturally, but you and I are making the argument that it actually is an easier way to go through life?

How can people force themselves into this mindset what would that process look like?

Rebecca: I think there is another way, and it came naturally to me, through my lifespan, right? so we’re always, changing and developing. we think of development as occurring in your adolescence, but actually, you’re going through developmental stages throughout your adulthood as well.

for me, it did happen as a part of that developmental stage. But what I will say about people who aren’t experiencing this, who haven’t experienced this, They need to be [00:18:00] healed, of the developmental stages that they didn’t get to fully experience. So there’s developmental tasks, you are supposed to conquer, if you will, at each developmental stage. And if you don’t conquer those tasks because maybe you have a trauma, maybe you are neglected, maybe for whatever reason, usually people left, with good enough parenting conquer those tasks,

It’s just independence, things like that. But if you don’t have a chance to achieve those tasks of development, the normal tasks of development, then it’s possible that you could get really stuck,

Yeah. So first of all, I mean, I’m a very, very, strong believer in cognitive behavioral therapy. And if you don’t actually wanna go to therapy, just the concept and the science behind it, that you can’t change your first thought, but you can change your second thought, I’ll get into that a little bit in a moment.

But what I, I think about it developmentally. So I think about it as there are certain tasks of development that we are supposed to achieve, That’s one theory, and I, subscribe to that. It’s very basic stuff that [00:19:00] most people who have good enough parents, you know, you don’t have to have, like, the best of everything in the world, but they kinda, your parents kinda get out of your way, and you achieve independence.

You achieve, responsibility, separation, you know, things like that. I think the people who are really stuck in their 50s… Listen, first of all- Perhaps they have mental health, challenges that they need to address. And, and by the way, I mean, I struggle with anxiety at times, with depression, thankfully not too much, so no shade to that.

Obviously, I’m in the field. But, you know, it’s possible that depression doesn’t always look like staying in bed all day. Depression could look like holding onto anger, irritability. So I think it’s important to just know that you may not just have to change your perspective. you may need to look into if you’re struggling with something mental health-wise.

So that’s, one thing. for some other people, they may not, for whatever reason, have achieved those developmental tasks because perhaps they had a trauma happen to them. I never like to give examples of traumas because everyone experiences things differently, and it’s all a, it’s a complicated thing.

Uh, you know, human nature is an art, not a science. There is [00:20:00] science behind it. so I’m not gonna give examples, but things could have happened in your life that prevented you in your growing up from achieving those developmental tasks, they call it, and in that case, you may be stuck. to get out of being stuck, right, it’s really hard to prescribe to each person, but what are some things that work?

Reflection works, and for some people that are stuck, for most people I would argue, finding a good therapist to help you get unstuck is a really good way to go. that’s one way. But I would say those people, listen, if it’s working for you, then it’s working for you. If people are happy or content– I, I imagine the people writing into you are not happy with that or they wouldn’t be writing in.

But I’m not here to say that everyone has to get to this point. If you have your one to three friends and you feel how you feel, but it’s working for you, then it’s working for you. There’s not one size fits all. But I would say if this, what we kinda talked about, sounds appealing to you and aspirational, and you wanna get there…

for me, I was very privileged to have a supportive, excellent upbringing and lots of healthy relationships, so this did [00:21:00] happen to me pretty naturally. I didn’t try to have this mindset. Although I will say I did intentionally practice gratitude. My whole family did when my dad got sick because, we really needed to find ways to get out of that, obviously the rut that you’re in when you have a family member who’s diagnosed with a terminal illness.

And so practicing gratitude I think probably sped this process up for me. tiny things, by the way. really tiny things of gratitude. Gratitude isn’t always the big things. It’s a cup of coffee, it’s a breeze, things like that. So I think practicing gratitude genuinely, even though it could sound hokey, is a way to start to get there.

I think reflecting, and if reflecting for you is with a friend or a partner or if it’s with a practitioner, you know, I think those are all ways people can get there. That’s what I would say to your listeners who this isn’t happening naturally for them, but they want to be there.

Nina: You’re making me appreciate something about my mom. Well, I always appreciate a lot of things about my mom, who’s been a guest on the show a lot. I think one thing she modeled well for me growing up, and I didn’t always do it well, I think as I’ve gotten older, I have matched her energy in this, which is she did [00:22:00] not raise me with a lot of discussion about beef with her own friends.

I don’t really think she had much. There wasn’t this culture in my house of like, “I’m mad at this one,” or, “This one said this the wrong way to me, and now we’re not talking.” And think about the difference what it would be like to grow up in a house where your parents, I won’t just blame the mom, that’s not fair, where whoever is raising you is always fighting with somebody, is always mad at her friend, and the friend’s mad at her, and, they’re not talking, and there’s a lot of complaining about who’s making the effort and who isn’t.

that just was completely absent. I actually think this is the first time I’ve thought it this way. I’ve spoken a lot on the show about my mom and my parents being a model for my friendships, but not in this specific way. She’s a just not an easily agitated person.

Rebecca: I know Kathy

Nina: I’m much more agitated than she is, and I’ve had to learn over the years, I think doing the show has helped me, and, before the show, writing about friendship, reading about other people’s friendship problems, I think has helped me in my own healing process of [00:23:00] maybe anything I’ve ever felt of, needing to be right, like you’ve used in an example before.

It’s such an exhausting way to walk around the world, to always need to be right. I don’t feel the need to be in conflict with people a lot, and I’m willing to work through conflict, but I realize not everyone is, and I think we’re just trying to help people get there. I mean, my opinion, I think, my show, and I get to have an opinion this is a better way to go through life.

Rebecca: certainly a more peaceful way, right? again, it’s a choice. If what you’re doing is working for you, then it’s working for you. for me, it’s this is working much better for me. once it sort of catches you and you sort of see the success, like anything, success begets success.

And I’m like, so when I, you know, might run into somebody and have a really positive thought about them, and then I start to feel more positively, and then it just builds on itself, and I just find myself generally feeling more positively and walking around just feeling more peaceful. It’s not even positive, ’cause that’s really…

It’s not, it’s peaceful. It’s just feeling at peace. what I would say about being right, I definitely, it’s probably a lot of the root of you and I back, then, [00:24:00] being right comes at a cost, there is a cost for everything. Everything. I say this to my kids all the time. Everything is a trade-off.

There’s only a finite amount of energy, of time, of everything. Everything is a trade-off, whether it’s a choice or not. the anger or resentment or hostility, feeling that may not be a choice, but choosing not to feel it is a choice, or at least choosing that you don’t want to walk around with all that, is a choice or it can be a choice.

I think that’s, like, really the message. There is, another way. And I had to call you when it just, hit me kind of like I’m 48 and a half. little younger than you. and it really did hit me that something is changing. I’ll hear about something happening to someone, and I’ll just have a different thought.

every so often I’ll reach out. So I have, reconnected gently with a few people who we just lost touch. it doesn’t lead to a permanent reconnection. It always feels better to walk around and feel reconnected with people and positivity towards people.

it helps me feel more positivity about myself as well. Um, but I [00:25:00] think the real key is this shift from, my 30s and 40s, and I think a lot of women can relate to this. This constant striving and building and your friendships say a lot about your identity, right?

Like, who am I friends with? And everyone always trying, kinda trying to place. “Oh, she’s part of that group or this group, or these friends or those friends,” and all this friend group drama that we’ve always… You know, I’ve heard you talk about in your podcast. Shifting from that to A much more, let me reflect on what I do have and what has occurred, and then that neuroscience shift as we get older of I’m more inclined to remember the positive, and I’m more inclined to make meaning. All those things kinda take it- came together for me.

Nina: so one question I think that might come up for people hearing all this is, you talked about getting together for coffee with, somebody that you had a connection with, maybe not, like, a big rift, but they are not in your life as much anymore and it was fun to catch up.

what can be tricky for people and keeps them from even making dates that is there’s, [00:26:00] an anxiety. I know I feel it, so I can speak for myself of, I don’t have time for, one more person to fit in and if I invite this person for one walk or one coffee or we have one really even, wonderful catch-up in the grocery store off to the side at Trader Joe’s for an hour ’cause we just had so much to talk about, how do we just leave it at that and not bring them fully back into our lives again?

Not ’cause we have any problem with them, but just because we don’t have, time or room.

Rebecca: I really wanna stress that for most people, this is probably not gonna lead to calling someone for coffee or something like that. I am generally I think more than you, like, I have a lot of…

I’m a huge extrovert, and you’re less of an extrovert. And so for me, that was a natural thing. Oh, let’s get together,” you know? But I think this is way more about an internal shift than an external manifestation of it, okay? So that’s the main point. So I would say don’t. Don’t see this shift as reaching out to someone for coffee.

But maybe you see this shift as going to someone’s house for a visitation for a funeral or a [00:27:00] shiva call that you wouldn’t have gone to before because of perceived, you know, we’re not close anymore, this or that. do what you’re comfortable with at a minimum, and it’s a, really, really significant minimum.

It’s not a minimum at all. It’s the internal shift that I’m talking about and the way that your mind is processing lost friendships or lost touch friendships, or even current friendships. It’s all about how you’re processing it and reframing it in your mind, rather than what your behavior is doing, if that makes sense.

So yeah, for me, it did look like a few more coffee dates. I also have very little free time during the year, right? So my job doesn’t lend itself to really getting together with people except on Saturday nights. you know, your job is more flexible, and you’re kind of around more, so I think you do have to be more protective of your time.

I don’t have time except in the summer, really. But, I think really what it looks more like than getting together with people for coffee is just how you feel about yourself, about them, about, your friendship journey, And that’s a much more peaceful place to be.

It’s not a story about [00:28:00] you, and you didn’t lose touch ’cause you are a bad person or ’cause they’re a bad person. you lost touch, and that’s okay. Or they did something, but you can just forgive them in your heart, which just gives you more peace. You don’t even have to, you don’t even have to tell them, right?

Um, may- maybe they didn’t even know that you were holding resentment and that you forgave them. But it’s really more about a personal internal shift that is really the key here, and whatever that looks like for you, it, you know, it looks like for you.

Nina: It’s a perfect place to end. And aren’t I lucky, everyone, to have Rebecca as a person I get to personally ask for advice? Because I do find your advice, not just now that you’re almost 50, but really in the past, to be very reasonable. You do a good job of asking me to think about the other point of view, and like pointing out that they were trying to be kind.

Or like I can think of a particular time, I won’t even bring up now, that you talked me off a ledge in a way, uh, and got me to see it, uh, in a different way, and not so negatively or personally.

Rebecca: Well, it is not one-sided and it is not altruistic. I get the same from you, and just the comfort and familiarity we [00:29:00] have, is really, really priceless, and I’m very excited to celebrate our and our other mutual college friend’s 50th birthdays coming up. your friendship really does mean the world to me, and I am not surprised that you are Dear Nina, that you are the expert on friendships, because to me, you are the ultimate friend, and I’m so blessed to have you

Nina: Oh, love you, Rebecca. listeners come back next week as we are trying to prove here when our friendships are going well, we are happier all around.

Bye

Rebecca: Bye

Nina: Listeners, you can find my Facebook group. Dear Nina, the group, when you go into the search part of Facebook, just type in Dear Nina, the group, and that is a great place where you can get your anonymous friendship questions answered, not just by me, but by other active members of the group And maybe they can even answer from the other point of view, because it’s so many people coming together who care about friendship

so that’s at Dear Nina, the group. And if we’re not connected on social media, that’s at Dear Nina. Friendship on Instagram and TikTok, even on YouTube . All right, have a great week. [00:30:00]